write up/down

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by sakvaka, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. sakvaka

    sakvaka Moderoitsija

    Do you write things down... or up (or neither) in your languages? This question may look strange, but let me illustrate.

    English:
    I'm writing down all that he says.

    Swedish:
    Jag skriver ned allt vad han säger. (ned = down)

    But, Finnish:
    Kirjoitan ylös kaiken, mitä hän sanoo. (ylös = up)

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Hello sakvaka,

    In Hungarian both can be used: le (down) or fel (up) with the verb write.
    In your English sentence the difference would be a bit subtle.

    With "down" one has the impression that it implies that the writer follows everything faithfully whatever "he" says, "he" knows better, "he" dictates what to do and how.

    With "up" it indicates that the writer has more liberty about how to act afterwards, if he writes all that "down" it is just for his own interest or that he'll follow his own decision later on (even if he needs the contents of what he is writing down for it).

    But I have to add, that these may be just my impressions.

    However, there are some special cases, too.
    E.g. a doctor always "writes up" a medicine (= when giving a prescription) or when (in business accounting) you have a loss, you can "write it down" (and you pay less taxes because of it or something of this nature).
     
  3. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    Wow! In Russian there could be any number of prefixes with the verb писать
    /pisat/ (to write)
    написать /napisat/ - on-write (write; write on something)
    записать /zapisat/ - behind-write / after-write (write after somebody’s dictation; write a note for memory; write a quick note)
    подписать /podpisat/ - under-write (write under something; sign; mark something with an inscription)
    приписать /pripisat/ - add-write (add another writing to existing text)
    переписать /perepisat/ - re-write (rewrite; copy)
    списать /spisat/ - from-write (copy)
    выписать /vypisat/ - out-write / off-write (write a fragment or a list of a larger text)

    And this is what I could think off the top of my head, there are probably more.

    Here I gave only the meanings related to the act of writing, there are other more figurative meanings for these words, e.g. выписать could be also “to discharge from a hospital” or "prescribe"; приписать could mean “to attribute” etc… I ignored these.

    EDIT: Funny enough, we have all kinds of "write", but what we don't have is "up-write" and "down-write"
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  4. DearPrudence

    DearPrudence Dépêche Mod

    IdF
    French (lower Normandy)
    (In French, we don't have phrasal verbs so, er, none:
    "write down": écrire, noter, prendre en note)
     
  5. Saluton Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    Russian
    I'd like to add that the verbs listed by rusita_preciosa have a perfective aspect. The imperfective aspect would be with -писывать instead of -писать.
     
  6. sakvaka

    sakvaka Moderoitsija

    Interesting information, I didn't know that both up/down can be used in English!
     
  7. usarenzo Senior Member

    USA
    Bilingual English/Spanish
    Spanish has no phrasal verbs. We say escribir, anotar, tomar nota. Up or down do not come into play.
     
  8. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    In Greek:
    «Καταγράφω» (kata'ɣrafo); from the same Classical verb «καταγράφω» (kătă'grāpʰō)-->to register, record, prescribe, ordain, fill with writing. Compound formed by the joining together of the prefix and preposition «κατὰ» (kā'tă)-->down from, down to, against, wrongly + verb «γράφω» ('grāpʰō)-->to write, express by written characters; one could say that «καταγράφω» is congruent to English "write down"
     
  9. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungary
    Hungarian - Hungary
    I don't know for sure (it's not impossible!:)), however, I was not explaining anything about the English but the Hungarian usage.

    The misunderstanding must have come from the fact that I referred to the sentence you gave originally (in English): "I'm writing down all that he says." without quoting it and giving its entire Hungarian equivalent (which then I would have to be translated back exactly the same way, only once with "down" and then with "up" after the verb).

    The "he" I quoted is the "he" in your original sentence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  10. Selyd Senior Member

    ucraniano
    In Ukrainian too (rusita preciosa)
    писати /pysaty/ (to write)
    написати /napysaty/ - on-write (write; write on something)
    записати /zapysaty/ - behind-write / after-write (write after somebody’s dictation; write a note for memory; write a quick note)
    підписати /pidpysaty/ - under-write (write under something; sign; mark something with an inscription)
    дописати /dopysaty/ - add-write (add another writing to existing text)
    переписати /perepysaty/ - re-write (rewrite; copy)
    списати /spysaty/ - from-write (copy)
    виписати /vypysaty/ - out-write / off-write (write a fragment or a list of a larger text)
    And still the imperfect form:
    записувати, підписувати, дописувати, переписувати, списувати, виписувати.
     
  11. rusita preciosa

    rusita preciosa Modus forendi

    USA (Φιλαδέλφεια)
    Russian (Moscow)
    I think in English the difference between write up and write down is similar to that in Hungarian. "I'll write something up on the topic by tomorrow" vs. "Write down carefully what you need to bring".
     
  12. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    In Turkish, like in French, we don't use any pre/post-positions for this (up/down or any other).

    Not almak = to take a note.
     
  13. Au101 Senior Member

    London
    England, English (UK)
    Well, in English, I suppose one is more usually to use 'write up' if one is writing a report or something of that nature, usually from a set of notes. In fact there is a word 'a write-up', which means a written account, or a report or something of the like. So, for example, I am currently doing my coursework in electronics and I have spent many months building the circuit and taking notes on its behaviour, etc.and now I'm going to 'write up' my report. Given that a 'write-up' is an account, a suppose one could use it in terms of 'writing up what he was saying', but for transcription and taking notes and that sort of thing, people tend to use 'write down'.
     
  14. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Dutch: opschrijven is way more common. Neerschrijven seems to suggest fixing it, for ever, or having that effect - or that is at least how I'd explain it... Way less common !
     
  15. jazyk Senior Member

    Brno, Česká republika
    Brazílie, portugalština
    Same in Portuguese: escrever, anotar, tomar nota.
     
  16. Orlin Senior Member

    София
    български
    Bulgarian and Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian use the same model (I think the other Slavic languages do too) and nothing to do with English write up/down.

    P. S.: I can add examples for Bulgarian and BCS, but I personally don't find it useful because the verbs will be extremely similar and so writing so much about them is not worth, and moreover this has nothing to do with the question of the thread.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  17. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    Chinese:
    寫下 (xie xia - write down)
     
  18. AutumnOwl

    AutumnOwl Senior Member

    Sweden
    Swedish - Sweden, Finnish
    Swedish have both write down - skriva ner and write up - skriva upp and I would say they are more or less equally common. Skriva ner is often used when writing down something somebody else says or write down my thoughts, while skriva upp is used when writing something down to remember, for example "Jag skriver upp det i min almanacka" or "Det kan du skriva upp" for "You can be sure of that".
     
  19. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That reminded me: the neerslag van een vergadering are written notes, not necessarily a full report, but the things to remember.

    And of course in some languages there are no phrasal verbs or derivations (French only has é- (out) and ad- [ap-, ac-, ...] (to), I think - or no, there is also sup-, pré-, sur-, I now realize).
     
  20. terredepomme Senior Member

    Human Language
    Korean받아적다(receive and write)받다 = receive적다 = write
     
  21. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That seems like an interesting combination of two words, but how do you use them ? Can you ue it like this I have received-in-writing [wirtten down] the most important points ? Or how ?
     
  22. terredepomme Senior Member

    Human Language
    As in: write down what I say. I have written down what I've heard. Tell me your name so that I can write it down. etc.
     
  23. L'irlandais

    L'irlandais Senior Member

    Dreyeckland/Alsace region
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    Phrasal verbs can be tricky. Worth noting that they are both phrasal verbs with a separable particle. How about the following examples in French?
    write down = mettre par écrit.
    write up = rédiger un compte rendu/une critique/un exposé (depending on context)
     
  24. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    You're right, Mr Irelander ;-). I guess that is the case with so many idiomatic expressions; very often one can only paraphrase them.

    Just like this Korean expression: is recording in writing here perfectly the same as writing down? It would be interesting to see if they are systematically interchangeable...
     
  25. terredepomme Senior Member

    Human Language
    No. You can 받아적다 only what you are hearing elsewhere, otherwise you are not "receiving it." You can't 받아적다 your own thoughts. You could say, however, 적어놓다. =적다(write) + 놓다(put)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  26. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How interesting. So there is quite a difference. Can you say that you have 적다 them?

    I am afraid it would be a side-thread if we dealt with these different aspects of writing here, but I'd still be interested. Could you use use 적다 when writing for an audience, like publishing for example? Or simply: can you make a lot of mistakes when trying to describe all kinds of forms of writing as a learner of Korean? (Don't feel obliged to answer if you think it too broad a question...)
     
  27. L'irlandais

    L'irlandais Senior Member

    Dreyeckland/Alsace region
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    Hello ThomasK,
    It may also be of interest to you to know that I was once "hauled over the coals" (so to speak) in the English only forum for suggesting that there were in fact a great many phrasal verbs in English. Some members, thought this to be untrue. While another member gotitadeleche had started that (linked) discussion because of the reaction phrasal verbs got over in the Spanish-English Vocab forum in this thread.
    Odd. It would seem that not all English-speakers are really au fait with the exact definition of these gems of idiomatic expressions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  28. terredepomme Senior Member

    Human Language
    One would use 쓰다. It is used for writing in general. 적다, however, means a more narrow type of writing: to take a note, to fill in your name, to write a memo, to write a list, etc. It generally tends to be associated with handwriting, I think. Of course, one could say 받아쓰다 instead of 받아적다 for "to write down." But it would have a different nuance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  29. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    TdP: here we go... There are two types of writing then in Korean, as there seem to be two different roots.

    That seems amazing, as I'd think everything started - in every culture - with handwriting (first drawing ?) and publishing in print came much later and was based on handwriting, I think. This might be too specific. if it is, TdP, I'll ask the question at the Korean forum. But I find it intriguing - or is it not that complex as I think (hope ???) it is? ;--)

    Mr I: hauled over the coals, were you ? Ah, great expression, but not a pleasant experience of course. Oh, I know. Ib some cases people seem to have like a fundamentalist attitude that does not take into account the living history of languages, or don't allow for hypotheses. The fact that break open is translated as one verb (aprir, or whatever) shows that it is kind-of a phrasal verb. I did not read it through. I simply agree that phrasal verbs and other idiomatic expressions are gems somehow !
     
  30. L'irlandais

    L'irlandais Senior Member

    Dreyeckland/Alsace region
    Ireland: English-speaking ♂
    Which is a dramatic jump from just adding two words together write + down.
     
  31. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    The Free Dictionary gives the definition of write-up as a) to place an excessively high value on (an asset), b) to increase the book value of (an asset) in order to reflect more accurately its current worth in the market.
    If that is the case, then write-up, is «ανατιμώ» /anati'mo/ in Greek; compound, prefix and preposition «ἀνὰ» (ā'nă)--> up, on, upon, throughout, again (PIE base *ano-, on, upon, above) + verb «τιμάω/τιμῶ» (tĭ'māō [uncontracted]/tī'mō [contracted])--> to hold in honour, esteem, value, prize (PIE base *kʷēi-(1)/*kʷī-, to pay attention to, regard with respect, punish, revenge).
    In the same context, write-down (to reduce in rank, value, or price) is «υποτιμώ» /ipoti'mo/; compound, prefix and preposition «ὑπὸ» (hū'pŏ)--> under (PIE base *upo-, under, up from under, over) + verb «τιμάω/τιμῶ» (tĭ'māō [uncontracted]/tī'mō [contracted]).
     
  32. AutumnOwl

    AutumnOwl Senior Member

    Sweden
    Swedish - Sweden, Finnish
    Att skriva is the normal expression for to write in Swedish, but there are also words such as anteckna (to note), nedtecka (oldfashioned for write down), förteckning (register, list) where -teckna can mean both to draw and a sign/letter.
     
  33. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    You're right: aantekenen, ondertekenen (sign), optekenen (not neer- ;-)) in Dutch as well --- etc..
     
  34. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    For me "writing up"is writing in blackboard or anything in the wall while "writing down" is writing in a paper or anything in sheet in a table or flatform.In Tagalog: write up/down= Isulat/ Itala
     
  35. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Are those two different verbs, but with a common root ?
     
  36. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    Isulat= meaning "write"( in a paper for record purposes for short duration)/ Itala= meaning"record" for documentations.
     
  37. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Is i- a common root then? How about writing informally (e.g. Write down that word!) ? Isulat?

    It reminds me of the Korean distinction somehow, though there are differences...
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2012
  38. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    It is prefix.the root word is "sulat".to make it as action word just add "i" to the word and it means you are commanding someone to write.To make it in formal form just add "paki". Pakisulat ang mga sinasabi ko(pls. write the words i am saying).
     
  39. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Now the i- has become clear, thanks.

    This distinction reminds me very much of Korean: for the audience or for oneself...
     
  40. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    I forgot write up is also possible

    Chinese:
    寫上 - xie shang - write up
     

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