yesterday, Anna and I went shopping, which I was very keen on.

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by Lofty, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. Lofty Member

    English (United Kingdom)
    I am wondering about an appropriate relative pronoun for the indefinite antecedant in the following:

    Is it correct to say:

    Вчера, Анна и я делали покупки, чем я очень увлекался.


    Вчера, Анна и я делали покупки, то чем я очень увлекался.

    Or something else?

    Thank you all.
  2. Maroseika Moderator

    Your second version is wrong at all, the first one is formally correct, but very clumsy:
    - more natural is Мы с Анной, not Анна и я;
    - делать покупки is very formal, better ходили за покупками;
    - увлекался is not appropriate here, maybe you can say something like и это меня очень увлекло (or even и я этим очень увлекся). Увлекался presume an action much more continuous than just a shopping. But better to say и мне это (занятие) очень понравилось.
    - such construction with чем is very formal or better say bureaucratic (Неизвестный гражданин меня обругал, чем причинил моральные страдания).
    - comma after вчера is wrong.
  3. VikNikSor

    VikNikSor Senior Member

    You can also say:
    Вчера мы с Анной ходили за покупками, и это было очень увлекательно/увлекательное занятие.
  4. igusarov

    igusarov Senior Member

    Moscow, Russia
    So, you intentionally want the sentence to be unclear about what does the word "which" refer to. So that the reader would have to guess whether it refers to the process of shopping, to going out with Anna, or even to Anna? Do I get you right?
  5. Lofty Member

    English (United Kingdom)
    I am just trying to practise with relative pronouns.As i understand it, i need to use что, чего,... to refer to the process of shopping, rather than который,... Which is used for definite animate and inanimate things..
  6. Maroseika Moderator

    Actually in this phrase no relative pronoun is used in normal speech, so it is not good example for your practising.
    But formally что can be used.

    Который is really wrong here, because in fact in your Russian phrase there is no process (shopping), there is action (ходили за покупками). But if you use the word, describing process, который would be quite applicable:
    Вчера мы с Аней занимались шоппингом, который я ненавижу (который refers to process - шоппинг).

    You may also say (not very good Russian, but still possible):
    Вчера мы с Аней занимались шоппингом, что я ненавижу (чего я не терпеть не могу).
    In this case что (чего) refers to the action - заниматься (шоппингом).
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  7. Lofty Member

    English (United Kingdom)
    Thankyou. For clarity am I right in saying который is used because шоппинг is a NOUN, and что is used because заниматься (шоппингом) is a VERB?
  8. Maroseika Moderator

    Yes, I think you are right.
  9. learnerr Senior Member

    To me, the first is awful (as if there is another shopping that I like, but even if there is, it sounds awful anyway). By the way, the colloquial and not pretentious variant of "шоппинг" is "ходьба по магазинам". Yet, even with "ходьба по магазинам" it's worse to me than the example with "чего я терпеть не могу" or even than that with "что я ненавижу".
  10. Maroseika Moderator

    I agree, there is some ambiguity. But still such construction is widely used, maybe because ambiguity disappears in the proper context.
    Anyway, the main question here is how to use что and который with actions and processes.

    I'm not sure to what extent the word шоппинг is pretentious, but it is quite colloquial from pretty long ago.
  11. learnerr Senior Member

    This probably depends on something, like the place, but I certainly would not expect the word "шоппинг"/"шопинг" in real life...

    As for the original question, most likely I'd just omit everything and say a thing like "Вчера мы с Анькой много ходили по магазинам, было здорово" or "Вчера мы с Анной Трофимовной вместе ходили за покупками, было очень интересно". This, of course, needs some elaboration (the direct translation would look void, maybe this is why artificial), but the main idea is this: no use of grammatical constructions for such situation in live speaking.
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  12. Enquiring Mind

    Enquiring Mind Senior Member

    UK/Česká republika
    English - the Queen's
    :thumbsup: I think learnerr has hit the nail on the head in #ll. The problem here is with the English question, which is vague, and has no further context :rolleyes:. What exactly does "which" refer to?

    "Yesterday, Anna and I went shopping, which I was very keen on."
    I was keen on the fact that we went yesterday, not the day before.
    I was keen on that fact that I was with Anna, not Elizaveta.
    I was keen on the fact that only Anna and I went, not a group of 6 people.
    I was keen on the fact that we went shopping, not ice-skating.
    Shopping is something that I am generally keen on, regardless whether it was yesterday, or with Anna, or only the two of us.

    The sentence appears to mean: yesterday Anna and I went shopping, it was cool, it was a nice day, we had a good time, etc., so learnerr's versions are natural and idiomatic, unless - as the other posters have pointed out - there is some other context which wasn't stated in the original question.

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