útlevél ...ba vagy ....hoz?

Discussion in 'Magyar (Hungarian)' started by rovaniemi, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. rovaniemi Member

    Portuguese - Portugal

    I've been trying to translate "Passport to the Portuguese language" into Hungarian and the translation that was given to me by a Hungarian friend is "Útlevél a portugálhoz". But my basic knowledge of Hungarian doesnt let me figure out why she used -hoz suffix and not -ba. You say in Hungarian "útlevél a jovobe" "útlevél a paradicsomba" so why "útlevél a portugálba" is wrong? I believe it's exactly the same context and situation but maybe I'm missing something.

  2. francisgranada Senior Member

    I don't understand very well what "passport" means in this case ... But "útlevél a paradicsomba" or "útlevél Portugáliába" mean that having the passport, you can physically enter "into" the paradise or Portugal. In case of "passport to the language" this "passport" may help you to approach the language, rather than to travel into it (that's why -hoz and not -ba). At least, this is my understanding of the difference ...
  3. rovaniemi Member

    Portuguese - Portugal
    Thanks Francisgranada, now I understand the difference, -ba/be is used when we talk about a space that can be entered physically, be it a country, the paradise or even the future;) A language is not a physical space, thats why -ba doesnt work here.
  4. francisgranada Senior Member

    De nada :). We could surely find also cases when -ba is used figuratively without meaning a true "physical entering", but apparently not in this case. Em qual sentido usas nesse caso a palavra "passport"? É um manual? ...
  5. rovaniemi Member

    Portuguese - Portugal
    Sim, é um manual de português língua estrangeira. O manual como um passaporte, ou seja, como uma ferramenta que dá acesso à língua:)
  6. francisgranada Senior Member

    Não sei se a palavra "útlevél" seja a tradução ótima nesse caso. But let's continue in English :)... If this passport is something like a guide, then "útmutató" or "bevezető" would be perhaps better. But let's wait for other opinions, too.
  7. Zsanna

    Zsanna ModErrata

    Hungarian - Hungary
    I agree with francis even about útmutató, bevezető (or maybe evensegítség) being a bit better than the equivalent of passport but itreally depends on what you want to express to start with.

    If it is something that is supposed to provide a guide/help to learningPortuguese then the idea is not to get "into the middle of"it (-ba/-be) but just to be able
    approach(-hoz,-hez,-höz)it, to provide help "for the journey towards it" - which is the meaning of the suffix (as you probably know).:)
  8. Akitlosz Senior Member

    Passport to Portugal = Útlevél Portugáliába.

    Passport to the Portuguese language. = Útlevél a portugál nyelvhez.

    "why "útlevél a portugálba" is wrong?"

    This is really wrong, because the question hová = where appeal three possible endings:

    1. -ra, -re
    2. -ba, -be
    3. -hoz -hëz, -höz

    but these terminals are not interchangeable.

    Sorry, you need to learn when to use them.

    In fact, because it is a different grammatical case.

    Portugáliába = illativus
    portugálhoz = allativus

    The Hungarian language has 18 different grammatical cases.

    nominativus: portugál = Portuguese
    accusativus: porutgált = Portuguese
    dativus: portugálnak = to the Portuguese
    comitativus: portugállal = with Portuguese
    finalis: portugálért = for Portuguese
    translativus: portugálfor example: Portugál vált. = He became Portuguese.
    inessivus: portugálban = in the Portuguese
    superessivus: portugálon = on the Portuguese
    adessivus: portugálnál = at the Portuguese
    illativus: portugálba = to the Portuguese
    sublativus: portugálra = onto the Portuguese.
    allativus: portugálhoz = to the Portuguese.
    elativus: portugálból = from the Portuguese.
    delativus: portugálról = from the Portuguese.
    ablativus: portugáltól = from the Portuguese.
    terminativus: portugálig = until the Portuguese.
    essivus-formalis: portugálként = as Portuguese.
    essivus-modalis: portugálul = in Portuguese or for example: Vitézül harcol. = He fights valiantly.

    And then 9 not cases:

    genitivus: portugálnak a portugálja = Portuguese's Portuguese.
    distributivus: portugál(on)ként = per Portuguese or for example: fejenként = per head
    distributivus-temporalis: naponta = daily
    formalis: portugálképpen = Portuguesely
    portugálostul = with/in
    locativus: Pécsëtt = in Pécs
    (I never use that. The Hungarians' majority uses instead of locativus (-ott, -ëtt, -ött) superessivus (-on, -ën, -ön) or inessivus (-ban, -ben)
    temporalis: órakor = at ... clocks
    modalis-essivus: portugál(os)an = for example: Portugálosan fogalmaz. = He composes on a Portuguese manner.
    multiplicativus: ötször = five times

Share This Page