İstanbullu vs. İstanbul'lu - [Spelling]

Discussion in 'Türkçe (Turkish)' started by CapnPrep, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    Is it correct to write İstanbul'lu (with an apostrophe) in some situations? Is this form used differently from İstanbullu (no apostrophe)?
     
  2. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Erzincan
    Turkish
    When you want to say that someone is from İstanbul, it's never with an apostrophy: İstanbullu.

    Only in one specific occasion can you possibly spell it with an apostrophy: Temiz İstanbul'lu bir Türkiye için siz de katkıda bulunun!
    In this sentence, the meaning is: a Turkey that includes a clean İstanbul. In this respect, Temiz İstanbul'lu bir Türkiye isn't different than Beyaz çikolatalı bir kek.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011
  3. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Erzincan
    Turkish
  4. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    In that thread, Kibele quotes a rule from the TDK:
    In other words, no apostrophe is used when a word-forming suffix or the plural suffix is added to a proper noun, and any further suffixes are also added with no apostrophe.

    So if I understand correctly, -LI is considered to be a word-forming suffix (yapım eki) in the noun İstanbullu (= person from Istanbul), but a case suffix (durum eki) in Rallino's example temiz İstanbul'lu (= including a clean Istanbul). Is this distinction always easy to make? Because from another point of view, we have the same suffix in both cases, with a common abstract meaning (something like "characterized/identified by X").

    Is the apostrophe required in İstanbullu bir arkadaş "a friend from Istanbul"?
     
  5. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Erzincan
    Turkish
    My example was quite an unusual one, I admit. I only gave it because you had specifically asked whether or not İstanbullu is always written without an apostrophe. Theoretically the answer is no, but in practical that sentence (temiz İstanbul'lu) is quite hard to come across. :)

    İstanbullu bir arkadaş is without an apostrophe.

    Below, I have given the two possibly weirdest sentences in Turkish. Just so you can see the difference. (I'd wager that no-one would say them.)

    İstanbul'lu şarkılar dinliyorum. = I'm listening to songs that have Istanbul in it.
    İstanbullu şarkılar dinliyorum. = I'm listening to songs that were composed in Istanbul. (??)

    They sound so terrible that I can hardly make sense, but I couldn't find any better example to show the difference. Maybe someone else can. :)
    We never really think about whether or not that -LI is used as a yapım eki, actually. But maybe a simpler way to think could be that when it is a yapım eki, the thing possesses other stuff; and when it is a case suffix: it is possessed.

    O İstanbullu. (He comes from Istanbul. Think of it like: Istanbul possesses him.)
    İstanbul'lu bir cümle kur. (Make a sentence with 'Istanbul'. Think of it like: Make a sentence that possesses Istanbul. --> Istanbul is possessed by the sentence.)

    Oh dear ... Please tell me if what I am saying doesn't make any sense! I'm litterally inventing rules here! :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  6. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    Your examples are very useful, Rallino! But I think it would also be possible to understand O İstanbullu as "He possesses Istanbul", i.e. "He has Istanbul inside him, he is Istanbul-flavored…" No? From that point of view it's not so different from çikolatalı. :D

    Maybe I should mention that what first inspired this thread was a Turkish restaurant in the United States called "Istanbul'lu".
     
  7. gnaaye New Member

    İstanbul
    Turkish
    "O Istanbullu" would be understood as "He is from Istanbul" by pretty much all native Turkish speakers.
     

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