śpieszyć się

elroy

Imperfect Mod
US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
Cześć,

In the recording of the dialogue on the twelfth page of this file, the man pronounces the "ś" in "się śpieszę" the way I would have expected him to - i.e., like the "sh" in the English word "ship."

However, on the following page, in the recording corresponding to the "Pytania" and "Take/nie" sections, the woman pronounces the "ś" in both "Kto się śpieszy?" and "Pan Karol bardzo się śpieszy" like a normal English "s."

Why is this so? Are both pronunciations correct? If so, why? How can I tell when "ś" can be pronounced like a normal "s"?

Dziękuję. :)
 
  • Monica610

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Well, if he says "ś" in "śpieszę się" like "sh" in "ship", then I think he is lisping :) There is no such a sound in English but "ś" should be just pronounced as "ś", that's all. Sometimes we say it more like simple "s" (spieszę się) but it's a little incorrect.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Thanks, Monica. :)

    "Sh" was meant to be an approximation. I was indeed referring to the Polish pronunciation of "ś."

    So are you saying that pronouncing "ś" like a normal "s" is not uncommon, but that strictly speaking it's incorrect? Is it dialectal?

    Also, does this apply to any instance of "ś," or does this phenomenon occur only in certain words?

    Dziękuję. :)
     

    Monica610

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Now I realized how little I know about my own language:)
    But yes, "ś" should be pronounced as "ś" in every single word, doesn't matter if it stays on the front or in the middle of a word. I don't think that it has something in common with dialects. Some people say "spiesze" (with "s") when they are speaking very fast (the are in a hurry,indeed;)). It's not a huge mistake but sounds like a little lisp.

    Anatoli: yes exactly that was what I meant :) I've always had some problems with explaining things clearly;)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Right, but she also said,
    Monica610 said:
    Sometimes we say it more like simple "s" (spieszę się) but it's a little incorrect.
    This was the statement I wanted more clarification on.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Now I realized how little I know about my own language:)
    But yes, "ś" should be pronounced as "ś" in every single word, doesn't matter if it stays on the front or in the middle of a word. I don't think that it has something in common with dialects. Some people say "spiesze" (with "s") when they are speaking very fast (the are in a hurry,indeed;)). It's not a huge mistake but sounds like little lisping.
    Thanks again, Monica. In light of what you say, it seems strange to me that a woman doing recordings for a textbook and presumably pronouncing words very precisely and deliberately would pronounce it "s"!
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Seriously? :eek:

    I'm not talking about the dialogue, but about the "Pytania" and "Tak/Nie" sections on the thirteenth page of the file (page 34 of the book). I just listened to the recording again and unless something is wrong with my hearing, I'm sure the woman pronounced it like an "s" in both of the sentences that contain the word.

    The sentences are "Kto się śpieszy?" and "Pan Karol bardzo się śpieszy."

    For the life of me I can't catch the "ś" sound that you claim is there. :(
     

    Monica610

    Senior Member
    Polish
    I was talking about 12th page. On the 13th one the lady is pronouncing it as "s", you're right. Now I'm confused, becasue for me she speaks incorrect!:( Well, maybe not incorrect, but inaccurately, slovenly..

    But you know, it's such a small and not important difference that you shouldn't care about it ;)

    Edit: according to the dictionary of the correct polish, the boths ways of spelling are ok. So maybe it depends on dialect. For me spelling "ś" as "s" is very very strange!
     

    Jagoda

    Senior Member
    Bilingual polski-English
    I've also listened to page 13 from the file and confirm that it is the sound /s/. In this case, they should have written "Kto sie spieszy?" and "Pan Karol sie spieszy." since that's how the lady is pronouncing it, or vice versa.
    Both forms are correct (the /s/ and /sh/) and I personally use both of them and have heard both used.
    Thus, in the exercises, both forms are correct - the written and oral, except unfortunately, they don't correspond to each other.

    In Polish you can often find two forms of a given word: ex. patrzec and patrzyc (of course both end in the sound /ch/, but I can't seem to paste my accents in here! :()
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    To me both pronunciations are fine (I don't know which one I use).
    [...]

    Also, does this apply to any instance of "ś," or does this phenomenon occur only in certain words?

    [...]
    I am almost sure it doesn't happen with all instances of ś. I'd guess it only applies to the plosive consonant p in front of which ś occurs.
    There are only few words which you pronunce similarly:
    śpichlerz or spichlerz - granary
    śpiżarnia or spiżarnia - pantry
    śpieszny or spieszny (and its derivatives, though this is a derivative of śpieszyć) - in a hurry


    Monica610 said:
    Edit: according to the dictionary of the correct polish, the boths ways of spelling are ok. So maybe it depends on dialect. For me spelling "ś" as "s" is very very strange!
    Would the examples I gave sound strange to you too?

    As a matter of fact it more concerns pronunciation than spelling since some of the words with both variants of pronunciation are only spelled with s. Anyway, these are exceptional and students don't need to pay spacial attention to them as either pronunciation is correct unless someone has sharpened hearing and this makes them some confusion. :)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Bardzo dziękuję, Thomas. :)

    Point of clarification: for words that allow both pronunciations, is there only one correct spelling - sometimes "ś" and sometiems "s"?
     

    Thomas1

    Senior Member
    polszczyzna warszawska
    Bardzo dziękuję, Thomas. :)

    Point of clarification: for words that allow both pronunciations, is there only one correct spelling - sometimes "ś" and sometiems "s"?
    Proszę bardzo, nie ma za co. :)

    As far as I can remember the word śpieszyć (+ its derivatives) gives the possibility to use both spellings, i.e. śpieszyć and spieszyć. The other examples I gave can only be spelled using one way i.e. the one with s at the beginning (spichlerz, spiżarnia).
     
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