Μασ αρέσει

goonhilly

Member
English
I think that I am right to say that ~"μασ αρέσει" means we like it/him/her and the direct translation is (sorry no quotes as I am using an awkward mini keyboard) it/she/he pleases us.
But how would you stress which one out of say 2 woman or 2 brothers or friends which one you like We like HIM? Is the only way to do this is to bring in another verb such as prefer or point?
Or can you say "Του αρέσουμε" or is that a NO NO!?
Or is it say "μασ αρέσει αυτος"
I understand the concept of using the genitive on the indirect object such as -Αρέσουν πολύ του αδερφού μου. My brother likes them a lot- they are pleasing to my brother. But can't seem to get a way of emphasizing the We like him/her a lot?
 
  • dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Or can you say "Του αρέσουμε" or is that a NO NO!?
    "Του αρέσουμε" means "He likes us".

    But can't seem to get a way of emphasizing the We like him/her a lot?
    I cannot see how "We like him/her a lot" emphasizes something in English differently to "[αυτός/αυτή] μας αρέσει πολύ" in Greek. The key to understanding the syntax of the Greek verb 'αρέσω/αρέσει' is the one you seem to be already using: replacing the verb 'like/likes' with 'to please'.
     

    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Μπράβο, goonhilly. It's tricky for us Brits to get used to reversing "I like him" into "he pleases us". Actually German and French, not to mention Latin are the same as Greek.

    You've answered your own question. The emphatic HIM which we can only express by voice or capital letters is "μας αρέσει αυτός" or more definitely emphatic, "αυτος μας αρέσει". [Don't forget the final sigma is - ς.]

    "Του αρέσουμε" is perfectly grammatical but of course means "he likes us"!! We're so used to the reversal in the third person we can forget it applies everywhere. So you might ask "Σου αρέσω;" - "Do you like me?" or "Τους αρέσεις;" - "Do they like you?"

    The genitive is used with pronouns but σε + accusative is used for nouns and names. So it's "Αρέσουν πολύ στον αδελφό μου / στον Κώστα." "My brother / Kostas likes them a lot.

    The same construction is used with λείπω, to miss, "μου λείπεις" -" I miss you", and with πέφτω when meaning drop (accidentally) "του / στον Κώστα πεφτει το μολύβι" - "he / Kostas is dropping the pencil."

    Sorry dmtrs my reply crossed with yours while I was distracted!
     

    sotos

    Senior Member
    Greek
    If the qestion is about emphasis in oral communication, yes, you have to stress your voice like "AΥΤΟΣ μου αρέσει". It implies "not the other".
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    But can't seem to get a way of emphasizing the We like him/her a lot?
    Another way of saying "I like him/her a lot": Μου είναι πολύ συμπαθής.

    "How to get people to like you": Πώς να γίνεσαι συμπαθής στους άλλους.
     

    goonhilly

    Member
    English
    I think that I am right to say that ~"μασ αρέσει" means we like it/him/her and the direct translation is (sorry no quotes as I am using an awkward mini keyboard) it/she/he pleases us.
    But how would you stress which one out of say 2 woman or 2 brothers or friends which one you like We like HIM? Is the only way to do this is to bring in another verb such as prefer or point?
    Or can you say "Του αρέσουμε" or is that a NO NO!?
    Or is it say "μασ αρέσει αυτος"
    I understand the concept of using the genitive on the indirect object such as -Αρέσουν πολύ του αδερφού μου. My brother likes them a lot- they are pleasing to my brother. But can't seem to get a way of emphasizing the We like him/her a lot?
    Ok I have hopefully my last question - as doing some further exercises on my "favourite bete noir!" I stumbled again, although got the right multi choice selection which was this:

    Το δωμάτιο νούμερο 8 της αρέσει της Δέσποινας;

    Why is it necessary to insert an extra "της" before αρέσει? I would have thought that the sentence looks clumsy to me?

    The room is pleasing or Desp likes room 8 seems to me the right answer and it is but cannot seem to get why της is required as there is already the genitive after αρέσει?
    Or is it again emphasis on she like it ie the room - cant be the room likes her so I could only think of perhaps it is emphasis again?
     

    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Το δωμάτιο νούμερο 8 της αρέσει της Δέσποινας;
    You are right (again). The first της (personal pronoun - the second is an article accompanying the name) is not necessary. But we would normally say so.
    "Το δωμάτιο νούμερο 8 αρέσει της Δέσποινας;" is also OK, it can be said in any occasion.
    I think the difference between the two is (as you guessed again) a kind of emphasis on the person (Δέσποινα) rather than the thing (δωμάτιο).
    The 'opposite' construction is also common: Η Δέσποινα το γουστάρει (/θέλει/εγκρίνει/σιχαίνεται/μισεί/αγαπά...) το δωμάτιο.
    (The first το is again a personal pronoun, the second one an article.)
     

    goonhilly

    Member
    English
    Given that the first is the personal pronoun and the second is an article ? - threw me a bit and I was following through the rest of your comments.
    The only way available to me to express my internal turmoil on this is to put down pedantically what I believe you are explaining succinctly perhaps for someone who only got to O level English over 40 years ago is to be a wee bit pedantic by illustration
    Beginners such as I in learning a language tend to rely on the briefest of examples and some basic grammar notes

    I understand that there is a sort of inversion with "αρέσει" to be better understood as It/she/he is pleasing to whom and we use an indirect object pronoun as opposed to a direct object pronoun so
    Της αρέσει = she likes it him/she etc or it/she/he is pleasing to her and we went through earlier the variations on that.
    So I then know as emphasised by basic grammar - Greek- that I can say μου αρέσει το δώματιο/η ταβέρνα =I like the room/ the tavern or the room/the tavern pleases me. [noted that if it was a plural such as taverns pl.I would use αρέσουν]
    You then confirm that it is ok to say " Το δωμάτιο νούμερο 8 αρέσει της Δέσποινας " Both Hellono File and you plus a couple of others have stressed that with persons and pronouns that the correct is-- The genitive is used with pronouns but σε + accusative is used for nouns and names - and therefore I could say by my logic I could say(and this is me stumbling that I cannot turn this around and say):
    " το δώματιο αρέσει στην Δέσποινα" or can I then say? " στην Δέσποινα αρέσει το δώματιο"

    It was the mention by you of "the second της is an article" and to me I get that what you are saying that the this article in my example below is the genitive article - sorry for being slightly pedantic on this but is that all ok then.

    Το δωμάτιο νούμερο 8 αρέσει της Δέσποινας; It is down as question example as I note that I might have always put ; but it could also be a simple statement that she likes room 8 in conversation.

    Anyway all you guys are very patient as I am learning on my own with my books and CDs and although up to 65% of 90 odd lessons I would not survive without wordreference.com.!! Determined to get to the end of this dated Linguaphone course is he !!!

    The 'opposite' construction is also common: Η Δέσποινα το γουστάρει (/θέλει/εγκρίνει/σιχαίνεται/μισεί/αγαπά...) το δωμάτιο.
    (The first το is again a personal pronoun, the second one an article.)

    Above when you say opposite as I have not got around to some of these verbs yet subh as but αρέσει and λείπω behave the same and all you are saying I hope is that by the term opposite that i learn at an early stage that the other verbs such as θέλει/ βλέπω take the direct object pronoun up front of the verb such as many other languages eg French etc.

    The 'opposite' construction is also common: Η Δέσποινα το γουστάρει was the one that I liked as it is nice and direct /easy to my brain wiring also Glosbe has some wonderful examples !!!!!
     

    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    " το δώματιο αρέσει στην Δέσποινα" or can I then say? " στην Δέσποινα αρέσει το δώματιο"
    Both correct. Also: Το δωμάτιο αρέσει της Δέσποινας / Το δωμάτιο της αρέσει (First της a personal pronoun, second της an article).


    The 'opposite' construction
    By 'opposite' construction I meant that Δέσποινα becomes the subject instead of being an object.


    Η Δέσποινα το γουστάρει
    Beware: the verb γουστάρω is VERY informal (not offensive though) and, to my opinion, slightly dated.


    I'm not sure if there was another question in your post, where you seem somewhat (quite wrightly) puzzled. If so, please ask again.
     

    goonhilly

    Member
    English
    Many thanks for prompt answer- I was perhaps not explaining myself but endeavouring to explain by my own explanations on how it was all connecting up - I think that what you are summarising is that my own statements in my second post above is all ok and not grammatically incorrect.
    I was trying to think of a way to switch around the idea that the subject object of the verb is the table and of course got myself into a conundrum realising that or I should say that Despoina cant be pleasing to the room - that was what I realised
     

    goonhilly

    Member
    English
    Thus I got to this point yesterday and also I accidentally pressed send this morning with the part posting of my query.
    Therefore would it be appropriate to say that the room is the indirect object and can be also expressed as this alternative following construction for the above:
    Η Δέσποινα, της αρέσει στο δώματιο;
    Or does the above mean something else - I was deriving this from the room is pleasing to Despy or is it better to say:
    Της Δέσπ. αρέσει στο δώματι; ??
     
    Προσοχή με τη σύνταξη, δεν βγαίνει νόημα!

    Η Δέσποινα, της αρέσει στο δώματιο => Στη Δέσποινα της αρέσει στο δωμάτιο να έχει λουλούδια (της can be omitted - δύναται να παραληφθεί).
    Της Δέσπ. αρέσει στο δώματι => Tης Δέσποινας αρέσει στο δωμάτιο να έχει κλιματισμό (air condition).
     

    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Η Δέσποινα, της αρέσει στο δώματιο;
    Της Δέσπ. αρέσει στο δώματι;
    There's a syntax error in the first sentence. It should be Της Δέσποινας της αρέσει στο δώματιο, as we confirmed earlier. Having Η Δέσποινα there is something you MIGHT hear in certain circumstances, but coming either from an uneducated person or at a moment of confusion (compare: I does what I likes, and I likes what I do [coming from the street artist in Mary Poppins] or Mary, she is not here [when surprised/embarrassed by a 'where's Mary?' question]).

    Tης αρέσει στο δώματιο, on the other hand, means: She likes [being] in the room.
    Alternatively that would be: Της Δέσποινας της αρέσει στο δωμάτιo.*

    *στο δωμάτιο here is not an indirect object but a definition of place.
     

    ianis

    Member
    Portuguese - Portugal
    Found an interesting aparent repetition of the pronoun though it is not the same case as above, one is the accusative (τον τους) refering to the direct object and the second the dative (του τους) refering to the indirect object (hope this interpretation is correct): Οι κακούργοι είχαν γιά συνεργούς τους εκείνους τους δουλεμπόρους που φεύγουν τώρα από κεί.

    their companions

    those slave-traders

    The second τους is not translated, right?


     
    Last edited:

    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    I am afraid ianis that this is a totally different case.
    Tους in εκείνους τους δουλεμπόρους is an article. The pronoun is εκείνους which is an indicative, not a personal one.
    As you correctly understood since you have the right translation, the first τους is a possessive pronoun.
    Therefore there's no repetition. Just two words, a possessive pronoun and an article, that look (and sound) the same.

    Just for fun:
    Τους συνεργούς τους, τους δουλεμπόρους, τους συνέλαβαν. (They have captured their accomplices, the slave-traders.)
    1st & 3rd τους: articles
    2nd τους: possessive pronoun
    4th τους: personal pronoun
     

    ianis

    Member
    Portuguese - Portugal
    Thank you dmtrs on top of that I believe my considerations about direct and indirect objects along with the cases are also wrong, there are a lot of gramatical shortcomings I need to work out. Consulting the textbook in indirect objects and indirect objects the words are declined in the accusative. And like you mention συνεργούς always has a criminal connotation, so companions was not a good translation.
     

    ianis

    Member
    Portuguese - Portugal
    Found an interesting aparent repetition of the pronoun though it is not the same case as above, one is the accusative (τον τους) refering to the direct object and the second the dative (του τους) refering to the indirect object (hope this interpretation is correct): Οι κακούργοι είχαν γιά συνεργούς τους εκείνους τους δουλεμπόρους που φεύγουν τώρα από κεί.

    their companions

    those slave-traders

    The second τους is not translated, right?
    Unlike I wrote it seems there is only a direct object in the sentence and I had a completely wrong idea of what a "case" means. There is simply no dative in modern Greek.
     

    dmtrs

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Unlike I wrote it seems there is only a direct object in the sentence and I had a completely wrong idea of what a "case" means. There is simply no dative in modern Greek.
    Dative (non existent in modern Greek, as you say) is replaced sometimes by a 'prepositional object' [Δίνω αυτό στο Γιάννη] or a genitive [Δίνω αυτό του Γιάννη]; both are indirect objects in this example.

    'για συνεργούς τους' in your sentence is a strange kind of predicate, to my opinion; predicate is not normally accompanied by a preposition (για here) or, if so, ως is usually used to accompany it. I don't believe that the phrase here is a mere prepositional one with an adverbial meaning.
     

    ianis

    Member
    Portuguese - Portugal
    Dative (non existent in modern Greek, as you say) is replaced sometimes by a 'prepositional object' [Δίνω αυτό στο Γιάννη] or a genitive [Δίνω αυτό του Γιάννη]; both are indirect objects in this example.

    'για συνεργούς τους' in your sentence is a strange kind of predicate, to my opinion; predicate is not normally accompanied by a preposition (για here) or, if so, ως is usually used to accompany it. I don't believe that the phrase here is a mere prepositional one with an adverbial meaning.
    Thank you very much for the detailed explanation dmtrs, maybe the last is because it appears in a translation from French.
     

    goonhilly

    Member
    English
    I was looking up the various translations of the word "really" on Glosbe -https://glosbe.com/en/el/really
    and just out of interest I found this translation continuing the them of :

    Η Μαίρη δεν αρέσει στ' αλήθεια στον Τομ, παρόλο που λέει ότι του αρέσει.

    Tom does'nt really like Mary, even though he say that he does.

    I had to think on this, for a while and using the analogy of what "Dmtrs" and Hellano κτλ explained above I thought that it was possibly a neat example and got it a few seconds!!
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Η Μαίρη δεν αρέσει στ' αλήθεια στον Τομ, παρόλο που λέει ότι του αρέσει.
    Tom does'nt really like Mary, even though he say that he does.
    Η Μαίρη δεν αρέσει στ' αλήθεια στον Τομ, παρόλο που λέει ότι του αρέσει.

    Tom doesn't really like Mary, even though she says that he does.
     

    ireney

    Modistra
    Greek Greece Mod of Greek, CC and CD
    Well, it could be either, couldn't it. From overall context I'd say it's him that says he likes her but either would be correct.
     
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