καλημέρα ή καλησπέρα

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  • ioanell

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Ασφαλώς, δεν υπάρχουν αυστηρά, αντικειμενικά καθορισμένα, χρονικά όρια για τη χρήση αυτών των χαιρετισμών. Σε γενικές γραμμές, η χρήση της "Καλημέρας»" είναι πιο εύκολη από της "Καλησπέρας": "Καλημέρα" λέμε από τη στιγμή που θα ξυπνήσουμε το πρωί μέχρι (εντελώς τυπικά) και το μεσημέρι στις 12. Όμως, στην καθημερινή πρακτική η «Καλημέρα» χρησιμοποιείται και αργότερα. Είναι δυνατόν να συναντήσεις κάποιον ή να πας κάπου και στη μία (1.00΄) το μεσημέρι και να πεις "Καλημέρα".
    Παρότι "εσπέρα", από την αρχαία εποχή, ονομάζεται το χρονικό διάστημα από τη δύση του ηλίου ώσπου να πέσει τελείως το σκοτάδι, "Καλησπέρα" λέμε κατά τις απογευματινές και τις (πρώτες) βραδινές ώρες. Απογευματινές (<από [του] γεύματος) ώρες θεωρούμε τις ώρες που διανύονται μετά το (μεσημεριανό) γεύμα, που κι αυτό, βέβαια, δεν είναι δυνατόν να καθορισθεί αντικειμενικά πότε λαμβάνεται. Ένας συνηθισμένος χαιρετισμός, όταν φτάνεις κάπου μεσημεριάτικα, είναι και το "Καλό μεσημέρι". Χοντρικά, "Καλησπέρα" λέμε από το μεσημέρι μέχρι και τις βραδινές ώρες, 8, 9, 10. Βέβαια, αν τύχει και πας κάπου στις 11 το βράδυ (νύχτα) θα είναι πολύ άκαιρο και άχαρο να πεις "Καλησπέρα". Συνήθως, λες «γεια σας». Αυτές είναι οι απόψεις μου.
     
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    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Thanks Ioanell for your helpful comments. I used to worry about this a lot! We Brits mostly take morning up to about 1200. If someone says "good morning" after 1200 you might well hear them apologize in a very British way, that they hadn't noticed the time! :rolleyes: But we don't make a distinction creating a time period between afternoon and evening. If we're honest however even for us the start of "evening" can vary a bit depending on the day length. I take you and others elsewhere here as implying that καλησπέρα certainly starts earlier than "good evening". It also feels like because the 'not-definitions' (!) are fluid, an hour or so either way is not a major mistake!
     

    Konstantinos

    Senior Member
    Greek - Athens
    Καλό πρωί ή καλό πρωινό πως και δεν υπάρχει στα Ελληνικά; Υπάρχει μόνο το καλό ξημέρωμα από το προηγούμενο βράδυ.
     

    ioanell

    Senior Member
    Greek
    It also feels like because the 'not-definitions' (!) are fluid, an hour or so either way is not a major mistake!
    I agree :thumbsup:!

    I take you and others elsewhere here as implying that καλησπέρα certainly starts earlier than "good evening".
    As can be read in OALD, afternoon is “the period of time from 12 o'clock in the middle of the day until about 6 o’clock in the evening“ and evening is “the part of the day between the afternoon and the time you go to bed“

    I can see the following difference between Greek and British greetings: the Greeks use “Καλησπέρα” from about noon until 8,9 or (about) 10 in the evening (Gr. βράδυ), as I wrote above. It’s the same greeting throughout this period, when people first see each other. Of course, the above [#2] greetings are differentiated, when people leave each other. The Brits, on the contrary, use “Good afternoon” from noon until about 6.00’ p.m. (depending on the day length, as you write) and “Good evening” from then on, don’t they?
     
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    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    ... The Brits, on the contrary, use “Good afternoon” from noon until about 6.00’ p.m. (depending on the day length, as you write) and “Good evening” from then on, don’t they?
    That's a good question. I think there would be quite a lot of personal variation over the afternoon-evening boundary. For me any time after 4.00 pm is a bit late for good afternoon and definitely too early for good evening. Evening for me starts between 6 and 7 pm but I might just say evening from 5.00 in the winter. So we can have a gap between the two especially in summer which απόγευμα would fill nicely! :eek: Others may see it differently.

    The other aspect which I haven't thought about much as I live in NW England roughly in the middle of the UK is that there is a big difference in day length between the extreme north of Scotland and say Cornwall in the far south west - especially in midsummer and midwinter.
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Εγώ λέω "καλημέρα" μέχρι περίπου το μεσημεριανό γεύμα (που σπάνια είναι πριν από τις 2μμ) και "καλησπέρα" μετά την ανάπαυση (με ύπνο ή χωρίς) που ιδεωδώς το ακολουθεί. Με ενοχλεί μάλιστα η σχετικά καινούργια και ξενόφερτη συνήθεια μερικών να λένε "καλησπέρα" από τις 12:01, όπως και να λένε "καλημέρα" από αμέσως μετά τα μεσάνυχτα!
    Ας σημειωθεί ότι "μεσημέρι" στα ελληνικά σημαίνει συνήθως όχι τη χρονική στιγμή 12:00, παρά όλο το διάστημα 12 με 3 ή και 3:30 μμ. Λέμε "στις δύο το μεσημέρι", "στις τρεις το μεσημέρι". Το "απόγε(υ)μα" αρχίζει συνήθως από τις 4 μμ. και το "βράδυ" όταν σκοτεινιάσει.
     

    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Thanks Αγγελε for your very helpful and clear setting out of what I understand as the "classic" position. It takes us foreigners a while to get used to it! Sorry if we've introduced our evil habits! :rolleyes: You and Ioanell obviously have a different viewpoint about the starting point of καλησπέρα. When would you see it as ending?
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    [...] You and Ioanell obviously have a different viewpoint about the starting point of καλησπέρα. When would you see it as ending?
    Ρerhaps as late as 11 pm. I think that if I were to meet with friends at 10:30 pm, I would still say καλησπέρα. But just like Ioanell, by around midnight I would probably use a neutral greeting like Γειά σας. I would certainly never say καλημέρα before dawn!
     

    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Ρerhaps as late as 11 pm. I think that if I were to meet with friends at 10:30 pm, I would still say καλησπέρα. But just like Ioanell, by around midnight I would probably use a neutral greeting like Γειά σας. I would certainly never say καλημέρα before dawn!
    I've learnt something here - I would not have expected καλησπέρα so late! On the other hand I would say good morning at any time if I had previously been asleep. So at 3.00 it would be good night after a night at the taverna or good morning I'd got up for an early flight, possibly even at 0100 and I hadn't been to bed!!
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    [...] I would say good morning at any time if I had previously been asleep. So at 3.00 it would be good night after a night at the taverna or good morning I'd got up for an early flight, possibly even at 0100 and I hadn't been to bed!!
    Me too, come to think of it. In fact, that is probably the logic behind it all; it's καλημέρα after waking up in the morning and καλησπέρα after waking up from the midday siesta. I no longer take a siesta, except in summer, but both my parents always did and that was the milieu my language habits were evidently shaped in :)
     

    ioanell

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Hi,
    an hour or so either way is not a major mistake!
    Others may see it differently.
    I think we can agree on the acceptance of the above.

    You and Ioanell obviously have a different viewpoint about the starting point of καλησπέρα.
    I don't think so, but I didn't see/read what time Αγγελος starts to greet with "καλησπέρα". I just read: Το "απόγε(υ)μα" αρχίζει συνήθως από τις 4 μμ. και το "βράδυ" όταν σκοτεινιάσει. Anyway, it's a matter of personal habits. If Αγγελος has his lunch at, say, 2.00' and then takes (at least in the summer) a siesta for about one, one and a half hour, it's only natural for him to start greeting with "καλησπέρα" at about 4.00', isn't it! But in the case of one having his lunch at one, one and a half, and then meeting another person at 2.30', it's only natural for them to say "καλησπέρα", and, especially if the other person is not a close acquaintance, "καλησπέρα σας". Consequently, this is a right time to start greeting with "καλησπέρα", when you first see someone else. Here, of course, we are talking about the starting point of "καλησπέρα" and not of the ordinary "Γεια σας" or the more formal "Χαίρετε", both greetings of 'general use'.

    Ας σημειωθεί ότι "μεσημέρι" στα ελληνικά σημαίνει συνήθως όχι τη χρονική στιγμή 12:00, παρά όλο το διάστημα 12 με 3 ή και 3:30 μμ. Λέμε "στις δύο το μεσημέρι", "στις τρεις το μεσημέρι".
    This is correct, but the expessions "στις δύο το μεσημέρι", "στις τρεις το μεσημέρι" only refer to a time set for an appointment, a rendez-vous. This is one thing and another thing is which greeting you are using when you meet the other person at 2.00' or at 3.00'. At # 2 above I wrote: Απογευματινές (<από [του] γεύματος) ώρες θεωρούμε τις ώρες που διανύονται μετά το (μεσημεριανό) γεύμα, που κι αυτό, βέβαια, δεν είναι δυνατόν να καθορισθεί αντικειμενικά πότε λαμβάνεται. Χοντρικά, "Καλησπέρα" λέμε από το μεσημέρι μέχρι και τις βραδινές ώρες, 8, 9, 10. So, I can't see what the different viewpoint is αλλά, στην τελική, όπως λέμε, it's a matter of personal views and habits, isn't it!.
     
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