μου αρέσει - μου πάει - μου λείπει

< Previous | Next >

ianis

Senior Member
Portuguese - Portugal
I understand what you say. Maybe, "it pleases me" is better rendered "με ευχαριστεί".


Yes, in Thessaloniki, for example.
"με αρέσει" - Αναζήτηση Google
Thank you. About the first, to start with I wasn't sure if it has exactly the same meaning as αρέσω, on the other hand I think I have heard the expression "she pleases me" and thought it translates as αυτή μου αρέσει.
 
  • bearded

    Senior Member
    Please let's go back for one moment to the issue of moods and tenses.
    "Θα μου άρεσε να ταξιδεύω στο Μεξικό"
    If I said ''on that day I didn't like travelling'' (just past and on one occasion, not conditional) would να ταξιδέψω (aorist subjunctive) be correct? Or would also present subjunctive be acceptable?
    Afti tin imera dhe mou arese na taxidhepso/taxidhevo.
    Thank you.
     

    Tr05

    Senior Member
    Greek - Greece
    If I said ''on that day I didn't like travelling'' (just past and on one occasion, not conditional) would να ταξιδέψω (aorist subjunctive) be correct? Or would also present subjunctive be acceptable?
    Afti tin imera dhe mou arese na taxidhepso/taxidhevo
    (It would sound better if you used "εκείνη" instead of "αυτή", because you're talking about *that* day)

    I think it would be better if you said:

    "Εκείνη την ημέρα δε μου άρεσε που (/το ότι) ταξίδευα/ταξίδεψα",

    depending on the sense of duration you wish to convey or not, as per my previous message.

    "Που/Ότι" is your go-to (I don't like generalizations, but I do believe it's safe enough, in this case) when you're referring to something that has taken place already ("The fact that I had to travel on that day, yeah, I didn't like it").

    And that's actually the missing word in "το ότι" [=το γεγονός (=fact) ότι].
     

    Tr05

    Senior Member
    Greek - Greece
    "Εκείνη την ημέρα δε μου άρεσε που (/το ότι) ταξίδευα/ταξίδεψα"
    Please note that the choice of verbs is between the imperfect and perfect past tense, which I didn't mention in the message above.
     
    Last edited:

    Perseas

    Senior Member
    If I said ''on that day I didn't like travelling'' (just past and on one occasion, not conditional) would να ταξιδέψω (aorist subjunctive) be correct?
    It doesn't sound natural, as explained.
    But using other verbs, "να ταξιδέψω" sounds natural, e.g. Εκείνη τη μέρα (δεν) ήθελα/έπρεπε να ταξιδέψω.
     

    ioanell

    Senior Member
    Greek
    I think this means that direct objects in Greek can be in the accusative, in the genitive or in a prepositional phrase.
    That's right.

    • Is there a ("simple") definition (that I might not know) of "direct object" and "indirect object"?
    • What is the purpose of talking about the type (direct / indirect) of an object, if it does not determine its form (in the Greek language)?
    διαφορετικέ, I don’t know what exactly you mean by “simple”, but here is the definition as given (with slightly differentiated wording) by some of the most accredited dictionaries. I ‘m afraid I couldn’t make it any simpler.

    In ditransitive verbs, direct is the object (person, animal, thing) which directly receives (or is affected in a way by) the action of the verb and is an indispensable complement of the verb’s meaning, e.g. Του έδωσα ένα βιβλίο, ένα βιβλίο is the direct object. You can’t simply say Του έδωσα. If you do so, your sentence will be incomplete and you will be immediately asked Τι; (=What [του έδωσες]).

    In monotransitive verbs, where you have just one object, there is no need to call it direct and, whenever this happens, it is just an unnecessary pleonasm. E.g. Ο ήλιος θερμαίνει τη γη. Here the object is in the accusative (In English and in German the structure is quite the same: The sun warms the earth / Die Sonne wärmt die Erde). I guess you agree.

    With some other monotransitive verbs (few as we have already said) the object is either in the genitive, e.g. Ο Γιώργος μοιάζει του πατέρα του, or in a prepositional (preposition+noun/pronoun) phrase, e.g. Ο Γιώργος μοιάζει στον [<σ’ τον<σε τον] πατέρα του, Ο Δημήτρης μοιάζει με τον αδερφό του.

    In ditransitive verbs, indirect object is an additional noun or pronoun in the genitive case or, alternatively, in a preposition+accusative combination, which, as a rule, indicates the person or thing that receives what is being given or done: the person or thing that the action of a verb is performed for or directed to, e.g. Του έδωσα ένα βιβλίο, Του is the indirect object or in Έδωσα του Γιώργου ένα βιβλίο, του Γιώργου is the indirect object. If you just say έδωσα ένα βιβλίο, your sentence will be partially incomplete and you will be asked Σε ποιον; (=to whom [έδωσες ένα βιβλίο]). So, the indirect object completes the meaning of the verb and the direct object (as a secondary object). (The difference in English is the case of the indirect object [objective or accusative him instead of genitive του] and its place: I gave him a book). Given this, I see that the structure in German is very close, when you say “Ich gab ihm ein Buch”; the difference here is that the indirect object is in dative, which we don’t have in MG, and that it isn’t called an “indirect object”, but simply “Dativobjekt”, isn’t it. (Note that the German structure here is absolutely the same as the Ancient Greek one). Alternatively, you can say Έδωσα ένα βιβλίο σ’ αυτόν / στον Γιώργο. This is a structure you use when you especially want to stress for whom the action was intended.

    In ditransitive verbs with double accusative, the accusative denoting a person is the direct object, whereas the accusative denoting a “thing” is the indirect one. (for further explanation on this, you can see #7 of the “Σε ρωτάω κάτι» vs “Σου ρωτάω κάτι” thread).

    Finally, the only case of having an object with an intransitive verb (exactly the same happens in English) is with the εσωτερικό ή σύστοιχο αντικείμενο (cognate object in English), i.e. when the object is etymologically or semantically related to the verb, e.g. τα νιάτα ζουν τη ζωή τους (the young ones live their lives), Η Μαρία χόρεψε έναν ζωηρό χορό (Maria danced a cheerful dance).
     

    διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    Many thanks for your explanations, ioanell.

    The following is my attempt to present some of the information received till now in a form which represents my understanding. If you discover any mistakes or errors, please tell me so.

    Definitions:
    Verbs which do not require an object are called "intransitive". (But some of them can have a "cognate object", e.g. "ζω τη ζωή".)
    Verbs which require an object (maybe more than one) are called "transitive".
    Verbs which require only one object are called "monotransitive" and their object is a "direct object".
    Verbs which require two objects are called "ditransitive" and their objects are a "direct object" and an "indirect object".

    The differential definition of the direct and the indirect object (possible only for ditransitive verbs) depends on the meaning of the verb. In general the direct object receives the verb's action, whereas the indirect object receives what is being given or done. With "verbs with double accusative" (e.g. "σε ρωτάω κάτι"), the direct object is a person, and the indirect object is not a person.

    Syntax:
    The direct object is expressed as accusative, except if the verb is one of the few particular monotransitive verbs (e.g. μοιάζω) where it is expressed as "genitive or preposition+accusative".
    The indirect object is expressed as "genitive or preposition+accusative", except if the verb is "ditransitive with double accusative".
     

    ioanell

    Senior Member
    Greek
    The following is my attempt to present some of the information received till now in a form which represents my understanding. If you discover any mistakes or errors, please tell me so.

    Definitions:
    Verbs which do not require an object are called "intransitive". (But some of them can have a "cognate object", e.g. "ζω τη ζωή".) :tick:
    Verbs which require an object (maybe more than one) are called "transitive". :tick:
    Verbs which require only one object are called "monotransitive" and their object is a "direct object". :tick:
    Verbs which require two objects are called "ditransitive" and their objects are a "direct object" and an "indirect object". :tick:
    The differential definition of the direct and the indirect object (possible only for ditransitive verbs) depends on the meaning of the verb. In general the direct object receives the verb's action, whereas the indirect object receives what is being given or done. With "verbs with double accusative" (e.g. "σε ρωτάω κάτι"), the direct object is a person, and the indirect object is not a person. :tick: To be taken into account the note made in #7 of the “Σε ρωτάω κάτι», when not so often the direct object (person) takes a preposition in front of it and converts into an indirect one giving priority to the other object (thing), which then becomes direct.
    Syntax:
    The direct object is expressed as accusative, except if the verb is one of the few particular monotransitive verbs (e.g. μοιάζω) where it is expressed as "genitive or preposition+accusative". :tick:
    The indirect object is expressed as "genitive or preposition+accusative", except if the verb is "ditransitive with double accusative". :tick:
    Your codification is excellent and your knowledge in Greek language matters impressive!
     

    διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    The main news for me was the fact that the designation of an object as "direct" or "indirect" is not directly connected with syntax, but directly with the number of required objects of the verb and with a kind of semantic ordering of the objects.
    So if one wants to discuss syntax, it might be better not to use the terms "direct object" and "indirect object", but describe the syntactical appearance of the object. On the other hand, I don't know a technical term for "genitive or preposition+accusative" object, for example - hence my tendency to call it "indirect object", which is wrong with some verbs.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top