παλτό: etymology

eno2

Senior Member
Dutch-Flemish
Hello,

Palto (παλτό) is a word that figures in a few languages. In French (Palletot) and in my Flemish/Dutch dialect (palto) , it has the same meaning as παλτό. A coat.
palto - Wiktionary

palto - Wiktionary

Probably from Polish or Russian, ultimately from French paletot. This etymology is incomplete. You can help Wiktionary by elaborating on the origins of this term.
1370: Palletot, Frans. www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/paletot

I suppose παλτό is a French loanword too.
 
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  • Acestor

    Senior Member
    Greek
    It does indeed come from the French word paletot, and two of my dictionaries (Babiniotis, Academy's) agree on that. This online dictionary claims it came from French through Italian, but I think that the final syllable stress would have changed in that case.
     

    Astrix

    Member
    Greek - Greece
    It does indeed come from the French word paletot, and two of my dictionaries (Babiniotis, Academy's) agree on that. This online dictionary claims it came from French through Italian, but I think that the final syllable stress would have changed in that case.
    I remember encountering somewhere an etymological derivation from "πέλτη" the small shield.
     

    Acestor

    Senior Member
    Greek
    I remember encountering somewhere an etymological derivation from "πέλτη" the small shield.
    There's an ancient Greek adjective παλτός, παλτή, παλτόν from πάλλω, which, according to Liddell-Scott, means brandished, hurled. It gave the noun το παλτόν, which stood for a missile, a projectile, and a light spear.
    None of them are used today, nor are they related to the French paletot. Πέλτη is not connected to paletot either, but I can see how the similarity of some consonants inspires folk etymologies.
     

    Astrix

    Member
    Greek - Greece
    There's an ancient Greek adjective παλτός, παλτή, παλτόν from πάλλω, which, according to Liddell-Scott, means brandished, hurled. It gave the noun το παλτόν, which stood for a missile, a projectile, and a light spear.
    None of them are used today, nor are they related to the French paletot. Πέλτη is not connected to paletot either, but I can see how the similarity of some consonants inspires folk etymologies.
    According to Fytrakis it comes from the italian "palto", no reference to any french word though the dictionary always goes back up to the earliest etymology.

    Who exactly thought of the french etymology?

    After all Italian is much closer to Greek with strong Ancient Greek interconnection.
     

    Acestor

    Senior Member
    Greek
    In my posting #2 I already mentioned the Triantafyllidis dictionary giving the Italian palto as the more probable origin of the Greek. On the other hand, the Babiniotis dictionaries as well as the more recent dictionary of the Academy prefer the French origin.

    To wit, the entry in the Babiniotis Etymological Dictionary reads:
    παλτό < γαλλ. paletot (από όπου το ιταλ. palto) < μέσο αγγλ. paltok «σακάκι, επανωφόρι» (αρχικώς χωρικού ή αγρότη), αγνώστου ετύμου.

    It’s not very important nor is it easy to confirm whether we eventually got it from French or Italian, but note that the French word is also pronounced paltó and that we got the majority of Greek fashion words from the French.
     

    Astrix

    Member
    Greek - Greece
    In my posting #2 I already mentioned the Triantafyllidis dictionary giving the Italian palto as the more probable origin of the Greek. On the other hand, the Babiniotis dictionaries as well as the more recent dictionary of the Academy prefer the French origin.

    To wit, the entry in the Babiniotis Etymological Dictionary reads:
    παλτό < γαλλ. paletot (από όπου το ιταλ. palto) < μέσο αγγλ. paltok «σακάκι, επανωφόρι» (αρχικώς χωρικού ή αγρότη), αγνώστου ετύμου.

    It’s not very important nor is it easy to confirm whether we eventually got it from French or Italian, but note that the French word is also pronounced paltó and that we got the majority of Greek fashion words from the French.
    The importation from French on fashion and other commodities and facilities is a good explanation.
     

    sotos

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Could be cognate to felt, and to romance words meaning "skin", and AGr πέλτη (since some shields were made of skins),.
     

    Astrix

    Member
    Greek - Greece
    Could be cognate to felt, and to romance words meaning "skin", and AGr πέλτη (since some shields were made of skins),.
    I didn't know this meaning of "felt", so there is a similarity, anything that covers someone has a "pelt" kind of root.
     

    ioanell

    Member
    Greek
    It’s not very important nor is it easy to confirm whether we eventually got it from French or Italian, but note that the French word is also pronounced paltó and that we got the majority of Greek fashion words from the French.
    I quite agree. The borrowing of the word from French is adequately explained, if we consider the massive importation of French words and phrases, in connection especially with diplomacy and fashion, after the establishment of the Greek State in 1830.

    As for the Middle English word, it may be “paltock” and not “paltok”. See Paltock | Meaning of Paltock by Lexico
     

    Helleno File

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    Exactly!
    Cf. Etimologia : palto
    And we pronounce 'paltò' (like in Greek) to retain the original French stress.
    French specialists may correct me but my memory of school/university French is that it is language with equally stressed syllables. The prime example for English learners is chocolat which we have to remember has three syllables unlike the English equivalent which is mostly pronounced with only two! French depends on intonation of course.
     
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