τι σημαίνει “γιγνόμενος”;

Apollodorus

Member
English UK
γιγνόμενος is supposed to be from γίγνομαι in the sense of “come into a new state of being” and sounds like an important word. But most translators seem to simply ignore it.

1. What exactly does it mean in the context below?

2. What would be the MG translation/equivalent?

[222α]“…διοιγομένους δὲ ἰδὼν ἄν τις καὶ ἐντὸς αὐτῶν γιγνόμενος πρῶτον μὲν νοῦν ἔχοντας ἔνδον μόνους εὑρήσει τῶν λόγων, ἔπειτα θειοτάτους καὶ πλεῖστα ἀγάλματ᾽ ἀρετῆς ἐν αὑτοῖς ἔχοντας καὶ ἐπὶ πλεῖστον τείνοντας, μᾶλλον δὲ ἐπὶ πᾶν ὅσον προσήκει σκοπεῖν τῷ μέλλοντι καλῷ κἀγαθῷ ἔσεσθαι”.

Plato, Symposium, page 222 (tufts.edu)

(H. Fowler) “… But when these are opened, and you obtain a fresh view of them by getting inside, first of all you will discover that they are the only speeches which have any sense in them; and secondly, that none are so divine, so rich in images of virtue, so largely—nay, so completely—intent on all things proper for the study of such as would attain both grace and worth”.

Plato, Symposium (tufts.edu)

(B. Jowett) “… But he who opens the bust and sees what is within will find that they are the only words which have a meaning in them, and also the most divine, abounding in fair images of virtue, and of the widest comprehension, or rather extending to the whole duty of a good and honourable man”.

PLATO, SYMPOSIUM (sgc.edu)

(R. G. Bury?) “… But if ever you see his discourses opening up and you get inside them, first you will find that his are the only discourses that have intelligence within them, and then that it is also most divine and contains the greatest number of statues of virtue. Moreover, they range over most, or rather all, of the subjects one should consider if one intends to become fine and good”.
 
  • sotos

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Forms of γίγνομαι are often used as auxiliary, simply with the sense "to be". For example with a past participle to form the passive voice of a past perfect. Here seems to mean exactly what the translations suggest. "to be inside". In modern gr. we would probably use a form of the v. εισέρχομαι or ευρίσκομαι. The crucial context is missing in that senntence. Getting inside what?
     

    Apollodorus

    Member
    English UK
    Getting inside what?

    Socrates’ words or speeches (λόγοι)

    This is the passage that comes before:

    καὶ γὰρ οὖν καὶ τοῦτο ἐν τοῖς πρώτοις παρέλιπον, ὅτι καὶ οἱ λόγοι αὐτοῦ ὁμοιότατοί εἰσι τοῖς σιληνοῖς τοῖς διοιγομένοις. εἰ γὰρ ἐθέλοι τις τῶν Σωκράτους ἀκούειν λόγων, φανεῖεν ἂν πάνυ γελοῖοι τὸ πρῶτον: τοιαῦτα καὶ ὀνόματα καὶ ῥήματα ἔξωθεν περιαμπέχονται, σατύρου δή τινα ὑβριστοῦ δοράν. ὄνους γὰρ κανθηλίους λέγει καὶ χαλκέας τινὰς καὶ σκυτοτόμους καὶ βυρσοδέψας, καὶ ἀεὶ διὰ τῶν αὐτῶν τὰ αὐτὰ φαίνεται λέγειν, ὥστε ἄπειρος καὶ ἀνόητος ἄνθρωπος

    Alcibiades compares Socrates to a Silenus statuette that can be opened to reveal images of gods (agalmata) inside.

    Outwardly his words or speeches seem ridiculous but when they are open and you look inside …

    I think “get inside them” is wrong, it’s more like “look inside” which seems to concord with σκοπεῖν < σκοπέω “to look into”, “examine” in the same passage.
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Cf. «Εγενόμην εν πνεύματι», Revelation 1:10, which presumably means "I was transported in ecstasy",
    and also Rupert Brooke's lines from "The Old Vicarage, Grantchester"
    "εἴθε γενοίμην. . . would I were
    In Grantchester, in Grantchester!"
    where εἴθε γενοίμην is clearly intended to mean "if only I were", rather than "if only I became".
     
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