За vs. для vs. на for "for"

RhoKappa

Senior Member
Standard American English
My textbook gives quite a few sentences in varying contexts to mean "for," such as the following:

Спасибо за помочь. Thank you for the help.
Это подарок для меня? Is this gift for me?
Я буду в Москве на пять дней. I will be in Moscow for five days.

What are the rules to each, as to which word to use meaning for?
 
  • Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    My textbook gives quite a few sentences in varying contexts to mean "for," such as the following:

    Спасибо за помощь. Thank you for the help.
    Это подарок для меня? Is this gift for me?
    Я буду в Москве на пять дней. I will be in Moscow for five days. Я приезжаю в Москву на пять дней or Я буду в Москве пять дней or even Я в Москву на пять дней, but not like your textbook gives.

    What are the rules to each, as to which word to use meaning for?


    Для means that an object is directed to somebody or something: подарок для меня, колесо для машины, земля для крестьян, заводы для рабочих, цветы для женщин, мороженное для детей. In most cases it can be substituted with Dative without prepostion: подарок мне, мороженное детям, etc.
    За (in your case) means the reason: спасибо за помощь (I'm thanking you because you helped me), награда за храбрость (you are awarded because you were brave), плата за работу (I pay because you worked), etc.
    "For time" construction is translated usually with на: на 5 дней.
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    There is at least one more meaning: "for" in the sense of "because".

    He did not go, for he feared she wouldn't like it. - Он не пошел, потому что боялся, что ей это не понравится.

    Here we have "потому что" meaning for "for".

    As Maroseika showed in his examples, the translation of "for" is highly context-dependent.
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    I've decided to copy-paste the Freedict entry and to try to go line-by-line with examples:

    for (fôr; f
    schwa.gif
    r when unstressed)prep.1. a. Used to indicate the object, aim, or purpose of an action or activity: trained for the ministry; put the house up for sale; plans to run for senator. - учиться на священника, выставить дом на продажу, избираться на должность сенатора (избираться сенатором).

    b. Used to indicate a destination: headed off for town. - отправился в город.


    2. Used to indicate the object of a desire, intention, or perception: had a nose for news; - у него нюх на новости;

    3. a. Used to indicate the recipient or beneficiary of an action: prepared lunch for us. - приготовил для нас ленч (приготовил нам ленч).

    b. On behalf of: spoke for all the members. - говорил от имени всех членов.

    c. In favor of: Were they for or against the proposal? - Они были за или против предложения?

    d. In place of: a substitute for eggs; substitute for a hammer; As а substitute for bread....; -. Заменитель яиц (genitive used); Заменитель для молотка. ; Заменителем хлебу может послужить......


    4. a. Used to indicate equivalence or equality: paid ten dollars for a ticket; repeated the conversation word for word. - заплатил 10 долларов за билет; повторил разговор слово в слово.

    b. Used to indicate correlation or correspondence: took two steps back for every step forward. - (this is almost an idiom, so...) на каждый шаг вперед приходятся два шага назад.


    5. a. Used to indicate amount, extent, or duration: a bill for five dollars; walked for miles; stood in line for an hour. - купюра на 5 долларов; прошел мили; стоял в очереди час.

    b. Used to indicate a specific time: had an appointment for two o'clock. - встреча была назначена на 2 часа.




    6. a. As being: take for granted; mistook me for the librarian. - принимать как должное; принял меня за библиотекаря.

    b. Used to indicate an actual or implied listing or choosing: For one thing, we can't afford it. - Для начала (одна из причин, во-первых), нам это не по карману.


    7. As a result of; because of: jumped for joy. - прыгал от радости.

    8. Used to indicate appropriateness or suitability: It will be for the judge to decide. - Это судье решать. (dative used)

    9. Notwithstanding; despite: For all the problems, it was a valuable experience. - несмотря на все трудности, это был ценный опыт.

    10. a. As regards; concerning: a stickler for neatness. - поборник аккуратности. (genitive used)

    b. Considering the nature or usual character of: was spry for his advanced age. - для своего возраста он был весьма подвижен.

    c. In honor of: named for her grandmother. - названо в честь его бабушки.



    conj. Because; since. - потому что.
     

    VelikiMag

    Senior Member
    Serbian - Montenegro
    How do you translate constructions for+verb+ing?

    In one example I tried with чтобы:
    For travelling to Russia you need a visa - Чтобы ехать в Россию, вам нужна виза.
    But is it possible here to make a construction using для?

    What about few other examples?
    I was pulled over for driving fast.
    I was fined for possessing a firearm.
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    How do you translate constructions for+verb+ing?

    In one example I tried with чтобы:
    For travelling to Russia you need a visa - Чтобы ехать в Россию, вам нужна виза.
    But is it possible here to make a construction using для?

    Sure: Для того, чтобы поехать...

    What about few other examples?
    I was pulled over for driving fast.
    I was fined for possessing a firearm

    Меня остановили за быструю езду (за то, что я превысил скорость), наказали за владение оружием (за то, что я владел оружием).
     

    alekscooper

    Member
    Russian
    Mmm.. love the question. I was a bit surprised by the way for is used in House M.D sometimes. The doctors often say: "Can you do it for me", implying that the patient should do something for the test to be done. In this case they don't do it for doctors, since the doctors won't benefit from it.

    As for morzh's cluster of examples, I would like to ask a question:

    Cooked lunch for us - Is it only для нас, or it can be вместо нас? Or is it both and it's the context that helps us to make sure what is meant?
    http://forum.wordreference.com/member.php?u=423945
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    How do you translate constructions for+verb+ing?

    In one example I tried with чтобы:
    For travelling to Russia you need a visa - Чтобы ехать в Россию, вам нужна виза.
    But is it possible here to make a construction using для?

    Для поездки в Россию вам нужна виза - without the comma too. Gerund is more often than not translated with a verbal noun.

    As for morzh's cluster of examples, I would like to ask a question:

    Cooked lunch for us - Is it only для нас, or it can be вместо нас? Or is it both and it's the context that helps us to make sure what is meant?

    It can mean both.
     
    Last edited:

    Angelo di fuoco

    Senior Member
    Russian & German (GER) bilingual
    Для поездки в Россию вам нужна виза - without the comma too. Gerund is more often than not translated with a verbal noun.

    The usual expression in such cases is: "для въезда в Россию" (not "для поездки"!!!), often used with the impersonal "требуется".
     

    Rosett

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Для поездки виза тоже требуется.
    Без визы не посадят в самолет или поезд.
     

    Angelo di fuoco

    Senior Member
    Russian & German (GER) bilingual
    Визы выдаются не для того, чтобы человек мог сесть в самолёт или на поезд, а для того, чтобы он мог пересечь границу - а так хоть пешком иди или вплавь плыви, но границу пересекать не смей.
     
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