Из-под палки

toyka96

Senior Member
Russian
How to translate this expression "из-под палки" in the context of the sentence: "А если здороваются, то точно из-под палки." (the grandmother is talking about the local Koreans as unwilling to say hello to each other).
 
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  • Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    Cheers! I like the combination of " as if under duress."
    Мне кажется, что так сказать нельзя в английском. Нужно подлежащее и сказуемое.
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    Мне кажется, что так сказать нельзя в английском. Нужно подлежащее и сказуемое.
    Вовсе нет – as if сочетается с наречиями (или наречными оборотами) не хуже, чем русское как. Смысл здесь «здороваются с таким видом, будто их палкой заставляют», однако слово duress по мне звучит слишком уж официально, чтобы подойти в таком разговорном обороте. Не приходит в голову идиоматического английского выражения, но могу предложить "And when they do, they look at you like you're twisting their arm".
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    Вовсе нет – as if сочетается с наречиями (или наречными оборотами) не хуже, чем русское как. Смысл здесь «здороваются с таким видом, будто их палкой заставляют», однако слово duress по мне звучит слишком уж официально, чтобы подойти в таком разговорном обороте. Не приходит в голову идиоматического английского выражения, но могу предложить "And when they do, they look at you like you're twisting their arm".
    Тогда может быть "as if under pressure"?
     

    Colora

    Senior Member
    Byelorussian
    English expression "force someone's hand" is the good way to capture the feelings and attitude when someone is made to do something unwillingly, in our particular case, when someone is made to say "Hi!" against his/or her will. "And, if they say "Hi!"- it feels as if you force their hand (and make them respond to you)."
     
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    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    English expression "force someone's hand" is the good way to capture the feelings and attitude when someone is made to do something unwillingly, in our particular case, when someone is made to say "Hi!" against his/or her will. "And, if they say "Hi!"- it feels as if you force their hand (and make them respond to you)."
    I don't think your suggestion fits very well in this scenario.

    I would translate the sentence like this: "They'll say hello to you only begrudgingly."

    Another option is to rephrase the sentence in the negative: "They won't say hello to you, unless [fill in idiom here].", where one example could be "unless you put a gun to their heads", but there are many options.
     

    Colora

    Senior Member
    Byelorussian
    Well, "begrudgingly" is a solid good word that can be used for this expression legitimately. Though, this word is fairly old and not used very often.
     

    Vadim K

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    I don't think your suggestion fits very well in this scenario.

    I would translate the sentence like this: "They'll say hello to you only begrudgingly."

    Another option is to rephrase the sentence in the negative: "They won't say hello to you, unless [fill in idiom here].", where one example could be "unless you put a gun to their heads", but there are many options.
    Please, don't forget about the word "точно" expressed by the speaker, which switches the expression to the subjunctive mood.
     
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    esperansa

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Well, "begrudgingly" is a solid good word that can be used for this expression legitimately. Though, this word is fairly old and not used very often.
    What do you think of the words "reluctantly" or "unwillingly"?
    If they say a greeting, they do it unwillingly for sure.
     

    Enquiring Mind

    Senior Member
    English - the Queen's
    "Begrudgingly", "grudgingly", "reluctantly", "unwillingly" are all ok. Good suggestions in #3 and #10 too. Another option: you'll be lucky if you can prise a "hello" out of them.

    [Prise* (поднимать, передвигать или взламывать посредством рычага; снимать с помощью рычага) (source: translate.enacademic.com)
    2) выбивать, получать с трудом (информацию)
    The police had the greatest difficulty in prising the truth out of the prisoner. — Выбить из подсудимого правду стоило полиции титанических усилий.
    You'll have a hard time prising any information out of him. — Тебе придётся потрудиться, чтобы выведать у него хоть что-нибудь
    ]
    *AE speakers may prefer "pry" to "prise".

    And another: you'd [= you would] be hard put** to get a "hello" out of them.

    **в затруднении, поставленный в затруднительное положение, стоящий перед проблемой (source: translate.enacademic.com)
     
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    toyka96

    Senior Member
    Russian
    The last idiom sounds more natural, i.e. "you'll be lucky if you can prise a "hello" out of them."
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    Well, "begrudgingly" is a solid good word that can be used for this expression legitimately. Though, this word is fairly old and not used very often.
    Google Ngrams begs to differ. (For those of you who can't click the link, it shows that the use of "begrudgingly" is very popular and has only been rising in popularity since the mid-19th century, and especially since 1960.)

    Alternatives like "unwillingly" or "reluctantly" would also work, but I feel that "begrudgingly" fits the best.

    Please, don't forget about the word "точно" expressed by the speaker, which switches the expression to the subjunctive mood.
    I went for the overall feel of the sentence and I don't think anything is missing.

    "Begrudgingly", "grudgingly", "reluctantly", "unwillingly" are all ok. Good suggestions in #3 and #10 too. Another option: you'll be lucky if you can prise a "hello" out of them.
    Good option. Is it a British thing to use "prise" instead of "pry"?
     
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