И драться даже не того

turkjey5

Senior Member
English - USA
Что значит "даже не того"?
Спасибо!!

http://ru.wikisource.org/wiki/В_бане_(Чехов)
У него жених тоже упорствовать стал, в приданом заметил что-то как будто не то, так он, Клякин-то, завел его в кладовую, заперся, вынул, знаете ли, из кармана большой револьвер с пулями, как следует заряженный, и говорит: «Побожись, говорит, перед образом, что женишься, а то, говорит, убью сию минуту, подлец этакой. Сию минуту!» Побожился и женился молодчик. Вот видите. А я бы так не способен. И драться даже не того
 
  • Carrot Ironfoundersson

    Senior Member
    Russian/Hebrew
    In my opinion, "того" is used here as a space filler (when someone is too nervous to find an appropriate word or isn't comfortable with what he is going to say). It's somewhat similar to "you know" in English. So it could be something like this: И драться даже не того... не умею.
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    In my opinion, "того" is used here as a space filler (when someone is too nervous to find an appropriate word or isn't comfortable with what he is going to say). It's somewhat similar to "you know" in English. So it could be something like this: И драться даже не того... не умею.

    If it was "того" I would agree, but it is "не того". Which is cannot be simply brought down to "того" negated.

    "Не того" may mean:

    Something isn't right
    Not really
    To be bad at something, which was mentioned before "не того".

    Depends on the whole sentence.

    Examples:

    - Что-то со мной не того....пойду я, пожалуй. - I'm a bit under the weather (literally: something is not right with me)...I better go.
    - С ним что-то не того... - He's not (being) himself.
    - Я по этой части не того.... - I am not really good at this.


    So, in this case it simply means "I don't fight" / "I am not good at fighting".

    You were correct at drawing the conclusion about Макар Тарасыч saying in essence "я драться не умею", but "того" was not a filler-upper but the direct substitute of "I can't".
     

    Carrot Ironfoundersson

    Senior Member
    Russian/Hebrew
    Yes, this "не" particle bothered me too, but in all the examples you've given I'd rather use "то" instead of "того" (except Я по этой части не очень). But we are talking Checkov here, so...
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    Yes, this "не" particle bothered me too, but in all the examples you've given I'd rather use "то" instead of "того" (except Я по этой части не очень). But we are talking Checkov here, so...
    Yes, but "не того", as well as "того" are even folksier spoken forms compared to "не очень". Not many people would use it in speech today unless purposely trying to sound folksy.

    There are also "не шибко", "не дюже" (southern Russia/Kuban, Ukrainian-based dialect).
     

    Natalisha

    Senior Member
    Russian
    He uses "того" when he has difficulties with finding an appropriate verb, or when the verb is clear from the context. One more example from the same story:
    Купец вон Клякин, — слышали? — даром что мужик, а поди-кася какую штуку того…
     
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