Сих (сей, сии)

imdiboss971

New Member
french
привет всем

Hi guys I was translating Putin's last speech of the 4 march 2014 and had this part :

В. Путин: "Я понимаю, кстати говоря, тех людей на Майдане, хотя и не приветствую сам факт смены власти таким образом, я понимаю, тем не менее, тех людей на Майдане, которые до сих пор требуют не каких-то там ремонтов фасада власти, а требуют кардинальных перемен. Почему они требуют? Потому что они уже привыкли, что одних жуликов меняют на других жуликов и проходимцев.

What does it mean сих ?

Thanks for your help
 
  • lectrice

    Senior Member
    Russian/Moscow
    до сих пор - jusqu'à présent (сих - le nominatif -сии - c'est le pluriel de сей=этот; до сих пор = до этих пор )
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    To add to what others have said, "сих" and the other forms of "сей" are not used anymore outside of fixed phrases such as "до сих пор".
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    To add to what others have said, "сих" and the other forms of "сей" are not used anymore outside of fixed phrases such as "до сих пор".
    Well, I'm afraid I must disagree. They indeed ARE used, although outside the aforementioned fixed expressions they have high or poetic connotation, and hence are used very rare. (Googling phrases like "сей человек" or "сия рука" can give a sufficient notion of a context these pronouns are currently used in.) On the other hand, the list of the fixed phrases seems considerably large as well, including "сего года" (formal), "сию минуту", etc. Some of the phrases have already merged into one word, like "сегодня" (<- сего дня) or "сейчас" (<- сей час).
     
    Last edited:

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    Well, I'm afraid I must disagree. They indeed ARE used, although outside the aforementioned fixed expressions they have a high or poetic connotation, and hence are used very rarely. (Googling phrases like "сей человек" or "сия рука" can give a sufficient notion of the context these pronouns are currently used in.) On the other hand, the list of the fixed phrases seems considerably large as well, including "сего года" (formal), "сию минуту", etc. Some of the phrases have already merged into one word, like "сегодня" (<- сего дня) or "сейчас" (<- сей час).
    (Per the request in your signature, I have corrected some of your English grammar and highlighted the corrections in red.)
    As far as I'm concerned, "very rare" is essentially the same thing as "not used". There are still people who call St. Petersburg "Ленинград", but that doesn't mean I would complain if someone told me that it's not called that anymore.
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    As far as I'm concerned, "very rare" is essentially the same thing as "not used".
    I'm just afraid it would conclude that 90% of the Russian vocabulary is "not used". :) For instance, when for the last time did you use the word "экзоцитоз"? Because I cannot rememer myself using it ever, unlike the word "сей" (outside any fixed expressions).
    (Per the request in your signature, I have corrected some of your English grammar and highlighted the corrections in red.)
    (Thanks.)
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    I'm just afraid it would conclude that 90% of the Russian vocabulary is "not used". :) For instance, when for the last time did you use the word "экзоцитоз"? Because I cannot rememer myself using it ever, unlike the word "сей" (outside any fixed expressions).
    What differentiates "экзоцитоз" from "сей" is that "экзоцитоз" is used whenever it is needed, while "сей" is usually replaced by "этот" whenever it would have been needed.
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    What differentiates "экзоцитоз" from "сей" is that "экзоцитоз" is used whenever it is needed, while "сей" is usually replaced by "этот" whenever it would have been needed.
    Many words can be replaced by others without prejudice to the literal sense. But still with some prejudice for the stylistics. Successfully or not, the word сей is used instead of этот by all kinds of natives, and both the sense of this word and its stilistic tinge are quite clear for any native. This is what tells this word from экзоцитоз and other specialized terms.

    Картинка в конце концов вручалась какой-нибудь из родительниц, чтобы не погиб сей чудесный документ в жадных ручонках дикарей великой, но бесполароидной державы. [Василий Аксенов. Таинственная страсть (2007)]

    В некотором обалдении кладу трубку и начинаю бешено соображать: что сей сон значит? [Юрий Трифонов. Предварительные итоги (1970)]

    Сей спор разрешился самой жизнью. Основой всех эффективных мировых систем сельского хозяйства остаются фермеры, а не крупные хозяйства. [Гавриил Попов. Ошибка в проекте. Ленинский тупик // «Наука и жизнь», 2009]

    И т.д. и т.п.
     
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