Спаси и сохрани

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equilein

New Member
Deutsch
Good day guys and gals,

I got a crucifix from my mum, and on the back of the cross, are 2 or 3? russian words, but Im not able to speak and read russian,so I don't know what it means, so could someone please help me :)

I have attached a link :)

www

.tinypic

.com/view.php?pic=2lcb8ky&s=7

Just put these 3 together, im not allowed to post urls from other sites :(


Thanks alot in advance :)
 
  • Budgy

    Member
    Russian
    Save and protect (these words are addressed to God asking to save and protect a person). These words are always written on Orthodox crosses.
     

    carsten

    Member
    Russian
    I agree with Budgy.
    "(God) forbid!" means "I hope it does not happen" while Спаси и сохрани literally means "save (me) and preserve (protect)"
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    I don't think that сохрани can mean "protect" - why the same thing is repeated twice? "Боже сохрани" traditionally means "God forbid somebody from something":

    Какая шутка: боже сохрани всякого от тех явлений, которые ставят в положение Гамлетов! [И. А. Гончаров. Опять «Гамлет» на русской сцене (1875)]

    ...пятое, боже сохрани меня полюбить женщину из нашего сословия ; шестое, если на случай, чего боже сохрани, меня посетит какая-нибудь страсть, большая и серьезная, то я должен открыться Марфе Петровне. [Ф. М. Достоевский. Преступление и наказание (1866)]

    Если же ты задумаешь бежать или, чего Боже сохрани, завести меня в западню, то я впущу тебе в брюхо такую ягоду, что она не сварится в нем до Страшного суда, хотя бы желудок твой был крепче, нежели у страуса. [А. А. Бестужев-Марлинский. Вечер на кавказских водах в 1824 году (1830)]

    In other words, Спаси и сохрани = Cпаси и упаси = God save and forbid.
    Maybe some people just mix up Боже сохрани with Храни тебя (меня, его) Бог?
     

    carsten

    Member
    Russian
    I base my opinion on this verse from Greek Orthodox Lithurgy found on the internets
    Ἀντιλαβοῦ, σῶσον, ἐλέησον καὶ διαφύλαξον ἡμᾶς, ὁ Θεός, τῇ σῇ χάριτι.
    σῶσον = save (this one is simple, the notion of salvation is known to all Christian denominations)
    διαφύλαξον = definitely "protect (thoroughly)". Nothing like "keep me from".

    I've also found this variant (this one is about Virgin Mary though):

    Και σώσον και βοήθησον ημάς, Παναγία Παρθένε
    βοήθησον -- it means "help": "Save and help, Holy Virgin."


    The expression "спаси и сохрани" in Russian tradition is said to be very old (so that it traces back to the original Greek phrase), so I think the examples you cited are a kind of afterthought. And I think that in modern Russian the second word is understood by many exactly in the way I explained.

    p.s.
    why the same thing is repeated twice
    "save" isn't the same as "protect". "Save" here refers to the Christian term of salvation. The whole expression I cited translates: "take (?), save, have mercy and protect us"
     
    Last edited:

    Tomarenko

    Member
    Russian
    While "forbid" really means "keep from", in this case it is just part of an idiom, both words are practically tautological, similar to "safe and sound" (or does "sound" mean anything different?). "Safe and preserve" is close enough, if you need to have two words in the translation.
     

    elemika

    Senior Member
    Russian
    ...Поминай в благоприятных твоих молитвах перед Христом Богом, да сохранит Он нас от искушений, болезней и скорбей, да дарует нам смирение, любовь, рассуждение и кротость, и да сподобит Он нас, недостойных, Царствия Своего

    Could it be "protect us from..."?

    For example, this one (Matthew 6:13):
    And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil
    It's interpreted as "a prayer for protection against temptation" ( see)

    In Russian:
    "И не введи нас во искушение, но избавь нас от лукавого"
    "Избавь от" интерпретируется как "предохранять" (от потенциальной опасности) (здесь).

    So, maybe Спаси и сохрани has the meaning "Save us (from real threats) and protect us (against potential threats)"?
     

    Slavianophil

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I think that the word 'спаси' ('save') here refers to eternal salvation, while "сохрани" really means 'protect' - meaning 'protect from anything evil'. At least, that is how I have always understood it.
     

    Albionneur

    Banned
    Tatar & Russian
    http://www.antiochian.org/node/18994

    Save and Preserve

    You look upon God’s glory in heaven,
    and bring grace from on high to earth,
    wise Gabriel, leader of angels,
    minister of God’s glory, and divine defender of the world!
    Save and preserve those who cry to you:
    “Be our defense, so that no one can be against us!”

    The Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
     

    Tomarenko

    Member
    Russian
    Once again, I second "preserve". It does not necessarily mean "protect from", rather "keep intact". For "safeguard" and "protect from" there would be "обереги".
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    I think this discussion is unnecessary.
    The guy did not ask theological question.
    The literal meaning of the words would be enough actually.
     

    Albionneur

    Banned
    Tatar & Russian
    Morzh, in any kind of activity there is a set of words that are normally used within the circles of that domain. It's not about starting a new discussion, it's about calling a spade "spade".
     

    Albionneur

    Banned
    Tatar & Russian
    I don't mean to argue here. My link leads to an Orthodox Christianity website maintained by native speakers, in this case Americans. What do you say to this?
     

    elemika

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Good day guys and gals,

    I got a crucifix from my mum, and on the back of the cross, are 2 or 3? russian words, but Im not able to speak and read russian,so I don't know what it means, so could someone please help me :)

    I have attached a link :)
    You see, the original poster has got enough info to understand what's written on the cross

    Agree with Morzh, the further discussion is unnecessary
     

    equilein

    New Member
    Deutsch
    Yeah, thank you guys :D
    So much response i really didn't expect.

    And i think save and protect is on all accounts ok ^^
     
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