на здоровье / за здоровье

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antimatter

Member
Greek
Скажите пожалуйста, какой вариант правильный? (if you want to make a toast)
 
  • elemika

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Обращаясь неформально к одному лицу:
    - За твоё здоровье!

    Обращаясь формально к одному или формально/неформально к нескольким лицам:
    - За Ваше здоровье!
    - За ваше здоровье (множественное число)!

    Возможен вариант без предлога:
    - Ваше здоровье!

    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тост

    Удачи!:)
     
    на здоровье! - всеядный вариант, т.е. это можно сказать обращаясь ко всем присутствующим.
    за здоровье - неправильно, потому что необходимо указать за чье здоровье ты предлагаешь пить, например "за здоровье Василия Ивановича", "за Ваше здоровье".
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    на здоровье! - всеядный вариант, т.е. это можно сказать обращаясь ко всем присутствующим.
    .
    Простите, вы хотите сказать, что провозглашают тост "на здоровье"??
     
    Я имею ввиду, что "на здоровье" - это русская версия cheers! santé ! и т.д., не требующая дополнительных слов, т.е. наиболее понятная и доступная для иностранцев.
     

    sofatura

    Senior Member
    russian
    Я имею ввиду, что "на здоровье" - это русская версия cheers! santé ! и т.д., не требующая дополнительных слов, т.е. наиболее понятная и доступная для иностранцев.
    Как раз-таки русская версия cheers! santé ! - ЗА здоровье! и самая, к тому же, распространенная ошибка среди иностранцев, которые всегда, поднимая тост говорят НА здоровье.
     
    Скажите пожалуйста, какой вариант правильный? (if you want to make a toast)
    If you drink to someone's health, you can say the following:

    "Ваше здоровье!!!"
    "За ваше здоровье!!!"
    "Будьте здоровы!!!"
    "Я пью за ваше здоровье!!!"

    For me they are both possible, very widely used and mean exactly the same thing.
     

    Valvs

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Как раз-таки русская версия cheers! Santé ! - ЗА здоровье! и самая, к тому же, распространенная ошибка среди иностранцев, которые всегда, поднимая тост говорят НА здоровье.
    Именно.
    Тост "на здоровье" если и используется, то в основном в шутку. До того, как он прозвучал в каком-то голливудском фильме "про русских", и расползся оттуда в другие фильмы (а потом и компьютерные игры) я никогда его в России не слышал.
    А вот в качестве ответа на "Спасибо!" фразу "На здоровье!" действительно можно часто услышать.
     

    palomnik

    Senior Member
    English
    Насколько я знаю, "на здоровье" значит "cheers!" на польском, не русском.
     

    elemika

    Senior Member
    Russian
    По приведенной выше ссылке можно найти, что

    • Santé» или «tchin»(фр.) — «Ваше здоровье!»
    • «Skål» (шв.) — «Ваше здоровье!»
    • «Prost» или «Prosit» (нем.) — «За Ваше здоровье!» :)
    cheers! =(to) your health! - за чье-либо здоровье (тост)

    http://lingvo.yandex.ru/en?text=%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8C%D0%B5&st_translate=on&dict=Universal

    "На здоровье" - имеет значение "you are welcome" в ответ на благодарность:
    - Спасибо за угощение!
    - На здоровье!

    Для тоста возможен вариант "Будьте здоровы!" или "Будем здоровы!" http://www.toast.ru/toast/02/1.shtml

    "Будьте здоровы" используется и как типичный ответ в случае, если кто-то чихнул:
    -Апчхи!
    -Будьте здоровы! (Bless you!)
     
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    alaric

    New Member
    English
    I know this has been discussed before, and I do realize that na zdorov'e is NOT a toast in Russian--despite foreigners constantly being taught that it is. However, in the show Svaty, I cam across a scene that goes like this. The heroes arrive in a hotel/resort in Turkey and to their surprise are greeted by a female Turkish employee who offers them free champagne. After assuring themselves that it is free, they proceed to drink it and they all use precisely the phrase Na zdorov'e. In the maybe 100 or so other episodes of this show there are many drinking scenes and this phrase is never used there. So three ideas occur. One, it is used here because they're drinking to the Turkish girl and they think she thinks it is the Russian toast, but this seems unlikely because they communicate with her in English and anyway there are other scenes where they deal with foreigners living in Russia and they don't use this phrase there. Second, this is not a toast at all but rather it is used to mean 'as much as you want, knock yourself out' (which is indeed a valid sense of na zdorov'e), alluding to it being free. Third, because it is free, each one is pretending to be the host treating the others, and indeed na zdorov'e is commonly used by the person who offers/serves food or drink. This is in season 4, episode 1, at around 5 minutes 33 seconds.
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    "За здоровье", as has already been mentioned in this thread, is a toast, which means the speaker says what he's drinking to, or in other words, what he hopes his action of drinking will supernaturally result in. "На здоровье", on the other hand, is an invitation to do something – in this case, to drink – with the added literal meaning of "it's healthy, so may it bring you/us health".
     
    Last edited:

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Interesting thread, first of all because "на здоровье" is a false friend of the Czech or Polish "na zdraví" [за здоровье], other Slavic languages :confused:
    Sobakus writes: invitation to do something. Fascinating comment. I can imagine it can be eating, drinking. But can it be really anything? My idea: you suggest that you and your friends should run a bit, would you say: на здоровье? Or can you use it in a sarcastic way of encouraging?
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    Interesting thread, first of all because "на здоровье" is a false friend of the Czech or Polish "na zdraví" [за здоровье], other Slavic languages :confused:
    Sobakus writes: invitation to do something. Fascinating comment. I can imagine it can be eating, drinking. But can it be really anything? My idea: you suggest that you and your friends should run a bit, would you say: на здоровье? Or can you use it in a sarcastic way of encouraging?
    When standing on its own, it can only be an invitation to eat or drink, I think. However, it can also mean "you're welcome to", with an undertone of "I/we don't care" as in:
    -Мам, мо́жно нам с друзья́ми погуля́ть?
    -Гуля́й на здоро́вье, то́лько уро́ки не забу́дь сде́лать.
    or
    -Ой, каки́е ми́лые котя́та! А мо́жно нам то́же одного́?
    -Бери́те на здоро́вье, не зна́ем, куда́ их дева́ть!
     

    Q-cumber

    Senior Member
    Another meaning is 'сколько угодно' (as much as you want, to any extent, all you want).

    For example:
    -Я буду жаловаться!
    -На здоровье! (жалуйтесь сколько угодно)
     

    yarique

    Member
    Ukrainian
    The other day yet another tipsy foreigner in a bar asked me if Russians actually say, "За здоровье!" before having one. I had been asked the very same question many times but never quite understood where the odd idea was coming from. Then it kind of dawned on me. So, here you go guys, right from a Russian long-time drink enthusiast's perspective:

    "За здоровье"
    NEVER used as a Russian toast in its bare form. At the same time, it CAN be used as part of an extremely stuffy toast. Imagine a big and very formal wedding party. A white-tied guest stands up, raises his glass and says, "Так выпьем же за здоровье молодых!" ("So, let's drink to the newlyweds' wellbeing!") Some people may still be doing that, but I'll be damned if I ever land at such a boring party.
    There is also an archaic form of the phrase, "за здравие". As long as toasting is concerned, its context is only historical. Suppose Russian Tsar is having a big feast, with a lot of dignitaries at the table. One of them, keen to be noticed and get an easy promotion, stands up, with a huge goblet in his hand, and bellows, "За здравие Государя Императора!" ("To His Majesty the Tsar's health!") No living person would ever use it today except in a historical reenactment or ironically.

    "На здоровье"
    NEVER used as a genuine Russian toast. NEVER. It is an actual Russian idiom, but its meaning is completely different: "you are welcome" or "help yourself". According to one theory, its fake toast use originated from an American movie about tough Russian gangsters and cops. If you use it for a toast, you accept Americanization. :)

    "Ваше здоровье"
    This is the one. I would use it anytime in an informal setting. It pretty much implies we have no formal pretext to drink and are just celebrating life.

    "Твоё здоровье"
    Can be used if drinking with just one friend whom you'd address in singular (ты). Hence the singular in the phrase.

    "Будьмо!"
    The Ukrainians got it right. It is THE toast to be used if drinking with Ukrainians in any less-than-extremely-formal setting.
     

    yarique

    Member
    Ukrainian
    Exactly like in Russian: Будем здоровы!, or just: Будем! (Ну, будем!).
    Thanks for that one. It's another valid Russian toast directly using the cross-national toasting idea of "salud"/"salute"/"здоровье" (health). I'm pretty sure the stock Ukrainian toast is also a reduction of the same phrase although it's seldom used in its full form these days: "Будьмо здорові".
     
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