немам новца...

serbianfan

Senior Member
British English
На руском се каже “у меня нет денег” (I’ve got no money) и не “у меня нет деньги”. На исти начин се каже (увек?) “немам новца” и не “немам новац” на српском. Немам времена, немам хлеба, немају млека у продавници, итд. А шта је са множином? Чини ми се да се може рећи “немају колача” а такође “немају колаче” - или не?
 
  • Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Ово није множина, него генитив једнине у функцији партитива. "I don't have (any of the) money".

    Да је множина, гласила би ”Немам новаца”. :)


    Извињавам се, мислим да нисам добро разумео питање. :) Колико ја знам, генитив се користи у случајевима где причамо ”уопште”, а акузатив у случајевима где се прича конкретно. Нпр.:

    Немају колача = у овој продавници уопште немају колача

    Немају колаче = договорили смо са њима да ће да донесу колаче али сад су дошли без њих.

    (Мислим да ово вреди и за једнину и за множину.)

    Међутим, нисам изворни говорник српског тако да препоручујем да сачекамо исправке оних који јесу :)
     
    Last edited:

    Lazar_Bgd

    Member
    Serbian - Serbia
    Zanimljivo pitanje. ’Nemam novca’ zaista znači da sam generalno bez para, siromašan. ’Nemam novac’ bi bilo u smislu ’nemam sad kod sebe taj novac koji ti dugujem’ (recimo). Pancelticovi primeri i objašnjenja za kolače stoje s tim što ’nemaju kolače’ može da se kaže i u značenju ’ne drže kolače, ne prodaju ih’.

    Ne znam da li postoji neko pravilo ali ja bih rekao da kad su u pitanju nebrojive imenice onda se koristi jednina: ’U ovoj prodavnici nemaju/ne drže mleko’, ali ako je brojiva imenica onda se upotrebljava množina: ’U ovoj prodavnici nemaju mlečne proizvode’ ili ’nemaju cipele’.

    U svakom slučaju: ’Svaka čast na znanju jezika!’.:thumbsup:
     

    serbianfan

    Senior Member
    British English
    Thanks, Lazar and Panceltic. Sorry I don't always have time to write my messages in Serbian. :( I seem to remember reading somewhere (maybe on this site?) that there are big differences between the Slavic languages when it comes to using the genitive in negative sentences. I think it said that Polish and Russian use it the most, maybe Serbian somewhere in between, while some (Macedonian?) don't use it at all.

    Anyway, I'm not sure if you need to be poor to say “немам новца” - isn't it more a question of whether you're talking about particular money (understood as "the money" or "that money"). So if someone suddenly says they want to borrow money from you (and it's never been mentioned before), surely you would say "Овог месеца/тренутно немамо новца" even if you have a big house and a nice car:)
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    there are big differences between the Slavic languages when it comes to using the genitive in negative sentences

    In Slovenian, you always need the genitive. I think Polish is the same, with Russian and Serbian being more in the accusative camp except in instances like we're talking about here. If I remember correctly, Czech is always accusative but it's been a long a time since my student years so I'm not sure.
     

    Lazar_Bgd

    Member
    Serbian - Serbia
    So if someone suddenly says they want to borrow money from you (and it's never been mentioned before), surely you would say "Овог месеца/тренутно немамо новца" even if you have a big house and a nice car:)

    Yeah, you're right. 'Nemam novca' is used for most cases, including when you won't part with your money, for whatever reason. Here are a few set phrases:
    'Nemam novca za razbacivanje' or 'Nemam para na bacanje' (=I've no money to throw around), or with vreme:
    'Nemam vremena za te gluposti' (=I've no time for this nonsense)
     

    Vick090

    New Member
    British English
    In Slovenian, you always need the genitive. I think Polish is the same, with Russian and Serbian being more in the accusative camp except in instances like we're talking about here. If I remember correctly, Czech is always accusative but it's been a long a time since my student years so I'm not sure.
    Yes! I’ve just been looking into this- Czech and Slovak use the accusative although you can say ‘nemám peněz’ in Czech as it means ‘I don’t have any money’, as you’ve been discussing. Polish, Slovene and possibly Belarusian always use the genitive for negative direct object whereas Russian, Ukrainian and SC vary as to whether it is abstract ‘any’ or a particular object.

    Everyone seems to use the genitive in the phrase ‘there is no...’ eg. Russian ‘нет хлеба’, Slovak ‘niet času’ .... this seems universal!
     
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