парковать/припарковать/запарковать

Hyperpolyglot

Senior Member
British Official English
As far as I know, парковать is the imperfective and припарковать is the perfective and what about запарковать?
I can't seem to find запарковать I'm most dictionaries and yet I found this sample semtence:
"Если бы не снег, мы могли бы запарковать машину у входа."
"If it were not for the snow, we could have parked the car by the entrance."

I was taught that you should use perfective verb after могли бы (could have) so why didn't they use the perfective припарковать and instead use this запарковать? Could запарковать be another form of perfective?
 
  • Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    The morphology of the verb (a basic prefix + -овать) is pretty obviously perfective. "Запарковать" (coll.) is generally the same as "припарковать".
    I was taught that you should use perfective verb after могли бы (could have)
    The use of perfective/imperfective verbs here is the default one: perfective verbs for singular actions, imperfective ones for iterative actions or continuous processes. Although the English present perfect tense usually corresponds to Russian perfective verbs, it isn't always so, since Russian is not sensitive to presence of the actual result by the moment, while for the English perfect it's a primary factor; the translation is largely context-dependent.
     
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    Q-cumber

    Senior Member
    I was taught that you should use perfective verb after могли бы (could have)
    I don't agree with this statement. "Могли бы" can be used in phrases in different ways. It can express a polite request / demand, for example.
    Вы (не) могли бы парковать (imperfective) свою машину подальше от входа? (not only this time , but in general).

    "Если бы не снег, мы могли бы парковать машину у входа." (repeatedly, until the snow is melted)

    Мы могли бы сейчас лететь в самолёте. We could be flying on the plane right now.
     
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    Particle

    Member
    Russian-Russia
    Could запарковать be another form of perfective?

    Yes, it is.

    Prefixes 'при' and 'за':
    Sometimes they mean a different degree of action (прижать, зажать; прикрыть окно, закрыть окно). But sometimes these differences are only visible from the context like in your example.
     

    Vovan

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I can't seem to find запарковать in most dictionaries.
    "За-" in "запарковать(ся)" connotes* the idea of finishing what you have started (it's like "up" in "eat it up"), getting the intended visible/tangible/solid/practical result (it's like "done" in "have it done"), etc.
    Когда затаритесь, сделайте дозвон, окей? А мы пока покурим на улице...

    "При-" in "припарковать(ся)" connotes* the idea of approaching, attaching, fastening, etc. (it's like "up" in "come up to somebody"); often - not for good, more or less temporarily:
    Приложи руку ко лбу и попробуй почувствовать, есть ли жар.

    You use "припарковать(ся)" in most cases.
    You can also say "запарковать(ся)" if your car is going to be parked for quite some time, «solidly» (usually, but not always, in a car park).
    У неё не получилось нормально припарковаться: она немного задела автомобиль охранника.
    Мы запарковались на стоянке у дома в пятницу вечером. Вечеринка должна была продлиться несколько дней...

    _______
    * Or even, denotes. Strictly speaking.
     
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    Rosett

    Senior Member
    Russian
    A true Russian expression, as opposed to "парковать", is "ставить машину" with the only perfective form "поставить" corresponding to it.
    With regards to "парковать", its reflexive form "парковаться" would be of preference in everyday usage.
     

    Hyperpolyglot

    Senior Member
    British Official English
    "За-" in "запарковать(ся)" connotes* the idea of finishing what you have started (it's like "up" in "eat it up"), getting the intended visible/tangible/solid/practical result (it's like "done" in "have it done"), etc.
    Когда затаритесь, сделайте дозвон, окей? А мы пока покурим на улице...

    "При-" in "припарковать(ся)" connotes* the idea of approaching, attaching, fastening, etc. (it's like "up" in "come up to somebody"); often - not for good, more or less temporarily:
    Приложи руку ко лбу и попробуй почувствовать, есть ли жар.

    You use "припарковать(ся)" in most cases.
    You can also say "запарковать(ся)" if your car is going to be parked for quite some time, «solidly» (usually, but not always, in a car park).
    У неё не получилось нормально припарковаться: она немного задела автомобиль охранника.
    Мы запарковались на стоянке у дома в пятницу вечером. Вечеринка должна была продлиться несколько дней...

    _______
    * Or even, denotes. Strictly speaking.
    So does that mean I can use any prefixes to form a perfective verb?
    For example:

    выпарковать (вы- prefix from выпить)
    упарковать (у- prefix from узнать)
    попарковать (по- prefix from поесть)
    or maybe паркать such as how the pair дать and давать works, so if it is парковать (давать) , it will change to паркать (дать)
    But then I don't think it works because давать is imperfective while парковать is perfective.


    A true Russian expression, as opposed to "парковать", is "ставить машину" with the only perfective form "поставить" corresponding to it.
    With regards to "парковать", its reflexive form "парковаться" would be of preference in everyday usage.

    Yes I remember this поставить very well from the pimsleur Russian that I learned years ago, it says something like: извините, вы знаете где я могу найти место что бы поставить машинов
     

    Vovan

    Senior Member
    Russian
    выпарковать (вы- prefix from выпить)
    упарковать (у- prefix from узнать)
    попарковать (по- prefix from поесть)
    "Выпарко́вывать(ся)" is occasionaly heard, and it means "to have a hard time driving a car out of a car park (usually, because of other cars parked around)".
    «Выпарковывать» машину пришлось в несколько приемов. (All examples in this post are from internet sites.)
    Surprisingly enough, "упаркова́ть(ся)" can really be found on internet sites, and it is used more or less jokingly to mean "to park a car away". I won't give examples of this, as the usage is most occasional and not recommended.

    "Попаркова́ть(ся)" is also found on internet sites. And it means "to give it a try to park a car (or multiple tries for a certain period)" or "to park their/our/her/my... cars (of many people or many cars; expressive)". Be careful about these uses: always study examples to learn appropriate contexts.
    Попробуйте игрушечную машинку дома попарковать - понятнее станет.
    Люди поприезжали домой и машины попарковали во дворах.

    I wouldn't say that the above-mentioned vebs are perfective forms of "парковать", though.:cool:

    They are just separate verbs with their specific meanings. Their meanings are deduced from what the prefixes that are added mean. See here, for example.

    Other members may tell you more about the points of theoretical grammar involved.
     
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    Enquiring Mind

    Senior Member
    English - the Queen's
    So does that mean I can use any prefixes to form a perfective verb?
    No. Prefixes modify the sense of the Russian verb in some way according to the context in which they are used, but as in English you can't just bolt on any prefix and expect it to make sense. Do -> overdo :tick:, underdo :tick:, outdo :tick:, re-do :tick:, ondo :confused::cross:,offdo :confused::cross:, indo :confused::cross:, withdo :confused::cross:.
    So does that mean I can use (...) паркать such as how the pair дать and давать works, so if it is парковать (давать) , it will change to паркать (дать). But then I don't think it works because давать is imperfective while парковать is perfective.
    :eek: Absolutely definitely not!! Парковать is imperfective, but in any case you can't play around with Russian verbs in this way. Follow your course materials, don't try and make it up as you go along ;).
     

    Rosett

    Senior Member
    Russian
    No. Prefixes modify the sense of the Russian verb in some way according to the context in which they are used, but as in English you can't just bolt on any prefix and expect it to make sense. Do -> overdo :tick:, underdo :tick:, outdo :tick:, re-do :tick:, ondo :confused::cross:,offdo :confused::cross:, indo :confused::cross:, withdo :confused::cross:. :eek: Absolutely definitely not!! Парковать is imperfective, but in any case you can't play around with Russian verbs in this way. Follow your course materials, don't try and make it up as you go along ;).
    "Парковать" is a fairly recent borrowing, and it is productive. By now, it has acquired the reflexive intransitive form "парковаться" and only a couple of stable prefixes that make it perfective. Besides the above, it could be also "перепарковать(ся)" (park again elsewhere or differently) and its iterative counterpart "перепарковывать(ся)" with imperfective meaning.
     
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    Particle

    Member
    Russian-Russia
    So does that mean I can use any prefixes to form a perfective verb?

    No, it doesn't work, but I can show one prefix, which is useful and good for this verb.
    This prefix is 'пере' .

    'Перепарковать машину' means to change the Parking spot.
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    So does that mean I can use any prefixes to form a perfective verb?
    You should make a distinction between "a perfective verb" and "a/the perfective pair". Most of the time you can form many perfective verbs from one imperfective by virtue of there being many prefixes with various meanings. But, also most of the time, only one of those will be the neutral perfective pair to that imperfective, meaning that the prefix's meaning is felt to be so intrinsic to the verb and so inseparable from the concept of perfectiveness that the pair only differ by aspect. At other times the various perfectives will be closer or farther away in meaning from the imperfective, thus forming a network instead of a pair. This is in contrast to those prefixed perfectives that have completely distinct meanings, such as описа́ть "to describe" vs писа́ть "to write" - but even those can be a pair when reverted to the literal meaning, albeit in very specific contexts and perhaps only as a nonce word or a pun ("to write around").
     

    Rosett

    Senior Member
    Russian
    ...only one of those will be the neutral perfective pair to that imperfective, meaning that the prefix's meaning is felt to be so intrinsic to the verb and so inseparable from the concept of perfectiveness that the pair only differ by aspect.
    Such neutral pairs, when applicable (e.g., in a given meaning,) are clearly denoted in dictionaries.
    However, "парковать" doesn't have a fully neutral perfective counterpart in standard Russian. Colloquially only, one can say "паркануть(ся)".
    "И вот, выбрав место, мы парканулись… Немного посидев и обмозговав ситуацию, мы остались крайне недовольны этой ситуацией".
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    So does that mean I can use any prefixes to form a perfective verb?
    1. A basic prefix added to the basic imperfective verb makes it perfective, but the problem is that most prefixes will also modify its actual meaning. The choice of the prefixated verb with unmodified meaning (if there is any!) is lexical and the safest way is just to learn verbs in pairs.
    2. Note that (some) prefixes combined with some types of verbs actually may not influence perfectiveness (влетать, заходить, угонять; заменять; реструктурировать etc.).
     

    Fagin

    Banned
    Russian
    So does that mean I can use any prefixes to form a perfective verb?

    запарковать машину в гараже - park the car in the garage - припарковать would be wrong
    припарковать машину у края дороги - park the car at the side of the road - запарковать would be wrong
     
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