с неба, с земли, с воды

[belfagor71]

Hi!

I am always continuing to translate a poem I found in the cemetery where rest the people who struggled during the Leningrad siege.

There balck parts are those which give me trouble:

"вся земля городская пробита ни одной башей жизни товариши. не позабыто под непрерыбным огнем с небас земли с воды подвиг свой ежедневныи вы свершали достоино"


Here it is my try:" all the earth was striken, do not one of your lives be forgotten, brothers. Don' t forget in front of the unceasing flame-thrower....you realized with dignity every day a heroic exploit".

I really don't know how to translate the black part.

Thank you so much!

Belfagor

 

[Lovely R]

The inscription is probably like that:
"Вся земля городская пробита. (???)
Ни одной вашей жизни, товарищи, не позабыто.
Под непрерывным огнем с неба, с земли, с воды подвиг свой ежедневный вы совершали достойно".

 

[Lovely R]

To understand and translate the last sentence you can change the word order in it:

"Под непрерывным огнем с неба, с земли, с воды подвиг свой ежедневный вы совершали достойно".

Вы совершали свой ежедневный подвиг достойно, (находясь) под непрерывным огнем с неба, с земли, с воды.

 

[Maroseika]

I don't think товарищи can be translated as "brothers". This is "political" address, therefore "comrades" seems to be due choice.

 

[belfagor71]

I don't think товарищи can be translated as "brothers". This is "political" address, therefore "comrades" seems to be due choice.

I know it, the fact is I am italian and I am translating the poem to Italian. But, since to discuss it in the forum I had to translate it in English, I simply wrote brother because I didn't know the translation of tovarish to English.
But I know in Italian :"compagni"!

Lovely R, would then находясь be a gerund relating to вы?

Thank you!

 

[Lovely R]

Lovely R, would then находясь be a gerund relating to вы?

You know, I'm not good at explaining the Russian grammar, but here's my try: as far as I know there's no gerund in Russian, and the words corresponding to the gerund (I mean the English gerund) are usually translated as verbs (often infinitives) or nouns. The gerund itself can't be related to a personal pronoun ("вы" in this case) because it's a non-finite form of the verb. I would say "находясь" is some kind of a participle here, but I'm not sure. As for translation, it can be sth like "being under incessant fire from...". Hope it helps.

 

[belfagor71]

..yes..they taught me that as gerund...!
Anyway, here it has the use I was thinking about.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Maroseika]

Находясь - this is so called adverbial participle, having the properties of the verb and adverb (unlike gerund serving sintaxically as a noun), and as the latter it is invariable.

For товарищ "comrade" seems to be the best word, because exactly this one was used in the USSR in English texts.
"Brother" in Russian associates only with the religious unity.

 

[belfagor71]

Thanks a lot for your precisation regarding "naxodias"!

One more question: can you explain me the meaning of njeba? I can't find on my dictionary. Thanks a lot!
Belfagor

 

[Q-cumber]

Thanks a lot for your precisation regarding "naxodias"!

One more question: can you explain me the meaning of njeba? I can't find on my dictionary. Thanks a lot!
Belfagor

небо - the sky, heaven

с неба <genitive case form> - from the sky

 

[belfagor71]

Thank you so much Q-cumber!

..this is strange! How is possible that such an ordinarious word is missing from my Kovalev-Zanichelli dictionary...!?

 

[belfagor71]

Вы совершали свой ежедневный подвиг достойно, (находясь) под непрерывным огнем с неба, с земли, с воды.

Anyway, I can't understand what the meaning of "с неба с земла с воды".
I mean "they realized a daily heroic explot being in front of flamethrows, with sky, earth and water.".
What does it mean?
Maybe, could it be translate "Thet realized a daily heroic exploit in spite of sky, earth and water.."
No, that's not possible1 But, so how should I properly interprete these words and relate them to "вы совершали..."
Thanks!

 

[Maroseika]

под непрерывным огнем с неба, с земли, с воды

They were fired uninterruptedly from the sky, ground and sea.

Prepostion "c" doesn't mean only "with", it has few meanings (with, from, since, etc.).

 

[jazyk]

Prepostion "c" doesn't mean only "with", it has few meanings (with, from, since, etc.).

Exactly, and it requires the instrumental case for the first meaning and the genitive for the subsequent ones.

 

[belfagor71]

Exactly, and it requires the instrumental case for the first meaning and the genitive for the subsequent ones.

Great! This is new to me!
So c+ genitive means Agent.
I have never come accross with this construsction before. I have always seen the Agent only with simple Instrumental case.
..Is this maybe only in petry or in literature or also in colloquial modern Russian?

 

[Maroseika]

This is aboslutely common way to express these ideas:
Дровосек ростом со слона спустился с горы со своим сыном, но, узнав, что магазин закрыт на обед с 2 до 3, поспешил с отъездом.

 

[Q-cumber]

Great! This is new to me!
So c+ genitive means Agent.
I have never come accross with this construsction before. I have always seen the Agent only with simple Instrumental case.
..Is this maybe only in petry or in literature or also in colloquial modern Russian?

Sorry, I don't understand well what do you mean by "Agent", but as said above, the preposition c (со) has several meanings (with, from, since, off, etc.). And, depending on the particular meaning, an attached noun takes different forms.
For example:
Книга упала со стола.
Эти стулья продаются вместе со столом?

 

[Q-cumber]

Дровосек ростом со слона спустился с горы со своим сыном, но, узнав, что магазин закрыт на обед с 2 до 3, поспешил с отъездом.

А позже, стоя рядом с горой, он сорвал с сына кепку (о чём втайне мечтал с самого отъёзда). Его задело, что сын сравнил его со слоном. С неба падали капли. Надо головой парили птицы, которые сроднились с небом.

 

[belfagor71]

I am sorry but I can't understand at all what you have written, Q-cumber.
A strange font appears on my screen..looks like it can't recognize Cyrillic font...! !!!

Sorry, I don't understand well what do you mean by "Agent", but as said above, the preposition c (ñî) has several meanings (with, from, since, off, etc.). And, depending on the particular meaning, an attached noun takes different forms.

The fact is, in Italian is complemento d'agente. I have tried to look for its translation on the on-line wordreference dictionary but I could only find "Agent"..I was sure it was not the same thing.
Anyway, the complemento d'agente is someone who makes an action so that the subjects suffers these consequences.
To make it easier "The apple is eaten by me"
By me is complemento d'agente

 

[Maroseika]

I am sorry but I can't understand at all what you have written, Q-cumber.
A strange font appears on my screen..looks like it can't recognize Cyrillic font...! !!!

This is "Cyrillic (Windows)" encoding. You may just switch it on to read it.

To make it easier "The apple is eaten by me"
By me is complemento d'agente

It's агенс in Russian (the one who suffers is пациенс).

 

[Q-cumber]

Sorry, I've re-posted the messages above. Are they readable now?

 

[belfagor71]

Thanks a lot Q-cumber! Now they are perfectly readable!!

So, can I also say:"книга написана с автопа"?

 

[Q-cumber]

Thanks a lot Q-cumber! Now they are perfectly readable!!

So, can I also say:"книга написана с автопа"?

Technically - yes...but what does "автоп" mean?

PS Oh, I see. You meant "автор", didn't you? If so, the phrase makes no sense to me.
"Книга написана автором." (The book is written by the author...)
But one can say: "Мы с соавтором <with co-author> написали эту книгу".