אנגלית --how to pronounce ?

קטן

Member
German High German
How to pronounce, in Israeli Hebrew, אנגלית, meaning 'English language' ?
My guess is [ˌ.anˈ.g͡lit] (thus without [ŋ]).

Is אנגלית ~ אַנְגְּלִתּ ? (Notice the missing י. Or is י obligatory ?)

~ means 'both words defined and equal in meaning'.
 
Last edited:
  • Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    I'm not sure about the first part (whether it's [n] or [ŋ]).

    But as for the second question, yes the י is obligatory, and אנגלת is not a correct spelling.
     
    Last edited:

    Abaye

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    The Wiktionary gives its pronunciation with [n], but now that I think of it, to me it has always sounded rather like [ŋ]... :confused:
    Wikipedia for Modern Hebrew Phonology says:
    /n/ is pronounced [ŋ] before velar consonants.
    but I'd take it with a grain of salt. Not clear whether they refer to standard language or marginal pronunciation. Their source is a survey by Nurit Dekel, 2014. In any case, it depends on the speaker and circumstances. I think that ŋ is a non-normative phenomenon, similarly to the "ch" sound (like in English much) that doesn't exist in Hebrew but may be heard in words like תשוקה.

    (maybe @amikama can split the thread so we'll have a discussion dedicated to ŋ).
     
    Last edited:

    קטן

    Member
    German High German
    אנגלת is not a correct spelling... ok, since אנגלית is known to be correct, nothing new here.

    What about אַנְגְּלִתּ ? (Consider איתום ~ אִתוּם, but מיזרח ≁ מִזְרָח.)

    The question of pronunciation of אנגלית is still open, too.
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    אנגלת is not a correct spelling... ok, since אנגלית is known to be correct, nothing new here.

    What about אַנְגְּלִתּ ? (Consider איתום ~ אִתוּם, but מיזרח ≁ מִזְרָח.)
    The vowel dots are not part of the spelling. When I say that אנגלת is not a correct spelling, that means with or without the dots.

    Furthermore, you have a spurious dagesh inside the ת. The correct vocalization is אַנְגְּלִית.
     

    קטן

    Member
    German High German
    The vowel dots are not part of the spelling. When I say that אנגלת is not a correct spelling, that means with or without the dots.

    Furthermore, you have a spurious dagesh inside the ת. The correct vocalization is אַנְגְּלִית.
    OK. (תּ indicates [t] here, not [t̚.t]. Some people may think of [ S] or even [θ] when seeing ת. Not exactly Israeli Hebrew, but sorta appropriate.)

    Pronunciation of אַנְגְּלִית ?

    [Moderator edit: formatting problem fixed.]
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    OK. (תּ indicates [t] here, not [t̚.t]. Some people may think of [ s] or even [θ] when seeing ת. Not exactly Israeli Hebrew, but sorta appropriate.)
    The תּ with dot is pronounced [t] by everyone. The [ת] without dot is pronounced [θ], [ s], or [t] depending on the variety of Hebrew. Since we are dealing with Modern Israeli Hebrew, the ת is pronounced [t]. But putting the dot is not an arbitrary choice, but rather it depends on grammar. Putting a dot in the ת of אנגלית is grammatically incorrect.

    As for the pronunciation of the נג, there was a brief discussion above, but I have nothing to add to it.
     

    קטן

    Member
    German High German
    In German 'English' is 'Englisch', [ˈɜŋ.glɪʃ].
    In French 'English' is 'l'Anglais', [lɑ̃ˈ.glɛ].
    In Hebrew 'English' is אנגלית, and the pronunciation some mystic thing.

    Did I get this right ?
     
    Last edited:

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    I think you are mixing up the symbols [ɜ] and [ɛ].

    But Modern Hebrew is not German. In English as well it is [ŋg]. But that doesn't mean it is so in all languages. In Russian, for example, it is [ng] and not [ŋg].
     

    קטן

    Member
    German High German
    Look, any useful Hebrew dictionary would have a short entry for אנגלית of the kind 'אנגלית, noun, English language, [ˌɐnˈ.glit], less often [ɐŋ-]' or the like.

    Why is it so hard to get a short, but still exhaustive, answer here ?

    (I'm not confusing IPA letters, but that is complex topic of its own.
    Short answer is: The initial vowel in German 'Englisch' is open-mid, unrounded, not really front, rather central vowel. So ɜ is adequate phonetic model for this sound, while ɛ is front vowel. Note that the IPA letters, as I use them, designate particular sounds, not phonemes. Often, IPA letters are used in a different way.)
     
    Top