כאן / פה

JLanguage

Senior Member
USA: American English, Learning Hebrew and Spanish

אני רוצה לדעת מה הוא ההבדל ביניהם באלו הקשרים אחד הוא יותר מתאים מהשני.
 
  • Macnas

    Member
    English and Russian, United States
    NEW QUESTION - threads merged by moderator


    אני מתנצל על השאלות שלי אם כולן קלות" אבל רוצה להבין.

    יש הבדל בין "פה" ו-"כאן"? אם לא, איזה שכיח יותר?

    תודה!​
     
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    noali

    Senior Member
    Israel, Hebrew


    לדעתי אין הבדל בינהן...
    אני גם לא חושבת שיש הבדל בשכיחות שלהן, אבל אם הייתי צריכה לנחש הייתי אומרת ש"כאן" יותר שכיח.

    מקווה שעזרתי באיזשהו אופן כלשהו :)

     

    iGoleh

    New Member
    English
    NEW QUESTION - threads merged by moderator

    Are po and kan roughly the same? I'm not certain but it seems to be that "kan" is used in a more emphatic way. As far as grammar is concerned however I don't really understand much of a difference.

    (Sorry in advance for the amount of simple questions I'll be asking, I have a fair understanding of hebrew, but some things just confuse the hell out of me :))

    iGoleh
     
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    iGoleh

    New Member
    English
    Is one more commonly used than the other? It seems to me when speech is more formal פה is used, when more informal, כאן is preferred.
     

    Maayan

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Is one more commonly used than the other? It seems to me when speech is more formal פה is used, when more informal, כאן is preferred.

    I don't think one is more commonly used than the other. It mostly depends on one's preferences. I can't think of a sentence in Hebrew where פה would fit better than כאן or vise versa.
     

    airelibre

    Senior Member
    English - London
    NEW QUESTION - threads merged by moderator

    What is the difference between kan and po? When is each used? thank you
     
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    OsehAlyah

    Senior Member
    English(USA), Russian
    Interestingly, Russian has two identical words to denote the same meaning(s). But in English we only have one. :)

    Makes me wonder just how much ancient Russian borrowed from Ancient Hebrew. :)
     

    David S

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Although these words mean the same, is one more formal than the other?

    Interestingly, Russian has two identical words to denote the same meaning(s). But in English we only have one. :)

    Makes me wonder just how much ancient Russian borrowed from Ancient Hebrew. :)

    The similarities between Russian быть and להיות are even more striking
     

    Egmont

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    The similarities between Russian быть and להיות are even more striking
    The one that I like, and that I also occasionally trip up on, is the similarity between Russian есть (yest) and Hebrew יש (yesh). They both mean, more or less, "there is." The Hebrew falls more naturally off my tongue, so I sometimes find myself saying יש in a Russian conversation. Perhaps not so oddly, people understand it!
     

    I see you

    Banned
    English - USA
    NEW QUESTION - threads merged by moderator

    Hello,

    I used to think that the Hebrew word for "from here" was "mipo", but recently I came across "mikan". Do they mean the same thing? Is one colloquial and the other formal?

    E.g. "ze lo rakhok mipo/mikan."
    It's not far from here.

    Thanks.
     
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    slus

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    po and kan are synonym. One is Biblical and one is Talmudic, but they're basically the same.
     

    I see you

    Banned
    English - USA
    Which one is Biblical? I want to know because I'm sure it's the more formal one, just like Classical (Quranic) Arabic is considered more formal than other types of Arabic.
     

    slus

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    פה is Biblical (for example Job 38,11), but I don't think it's more formal then כאן.
     

    oopqoo

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    In general I wouldn't even say that Biblical Hebrew is considered the most formal of all Hebrews.
     

    Egmont

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    Really? That makes no sense. How can the word of God not be the most formal type of speech?

    There is no necessary connection between the authority of a speaker and the formality of that speaker's language. Lots of people who have very little authority use formal language to make it seem as if they have more.
     

    oopqoo

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    It's just that as a native speaker, as long as the Hebrew used is not street lingo or everyday speech it is considered formal in my eyes. Maybe I can't sense the difference in formality between Biblical and Hazal Hebrew because I don't usually read texts written in these types of Hebrew. However the first thing that came to mind when thinking of formality was law, which in Israel is mostly written in a way that reflects the writing style of Hazal Hebrew, according to what I read online. So I personally would identify that as the most formal kind of Hebrew. I am giving you the average Israeli's answer, maybe a person who deals with Hebrew texts from all periods of time can contribute more insight.
     

    Albert Schlef

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    יש הבדל בין "פה" ו-"כאן"? אם לא, איזה שכיח יותר?

    They're the same. Personally, between לכאן and לפה I prefer לכאן because I can pronounce it correctly, /lekhan/, without attracting too much attention for being formal (something that doesn't hold for /lefo/).
     

    Albert Schlef

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    Because really the correct way to say it is הנה /hena/.

    Woa, really?

    Why isn't לפה legit?

    My dictionary (Even Shoshan) lists מפה and עד פה, but indeed it doesn't list לפה.

    (My dictionary also lists לכאן, of course. I thought we "agreed" that פה and כאן are the same....)
     

    aavichai

    Senior Member
    Hebrew - Israel
    there is no problem with לפה

    Even though - as someone said above

    saying /lefo/ is not heard

    and everybody say /lepo/
    (also me)
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    I was trying to say that I think the reason that /lefo/ is not heard is because when speaking in formal language, the correct word is /hena/.
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    But why isn't לפה correct? Who says so?

    That's a good question.

    Here are the occurrences in the Bible (based on numbers from Strong's concordance of פה and הנה; I included alternative spellings in the counts):
    - פה occurs 47 times
    - מפה occurs 35 times
    - הנה occurs 50 times
    - לפה does not occur at all (nor does "אל פה")

    I had suspected that if the Academy had said anything about it they would have said that לפה is wrong, but I cannot find anything from the Academy regarding this, and my suspicion could have been wrong.
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    If you remove ל from לכאן ('to here') you get כאן ('here').
    If you remove ל from לפה ('to here') you get פה ('here').
    What about הנה? If you remove ה from the end do you get a word that means 'here', i.e. הן?
     
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