עוד

HERETIC-

New Member
Egyptian-Arabic
Hi every body it's my first time to post here
I've two questions ;

1- Can this word עוד refer to past tense ? Or just for future ? Can any one explain please ?

........
Here in this example how can I say that it's talking about future not the past tense?
ולא קם ישוע עוד
Some people say that here the word קם is a subject not a past and it should be translated to :
yashua will never raise again
others say that it's talking about past tense and should be translated to :
yashua didn't raise till now

What is the right translation ? And are there any refrences ( dictionaris or books ) of the right translation that I can use to depate ?

Regards
 
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  • Nunty

    Senior Member
    Hebrew-US English (bilingual)
    hi every body it's my first time to post here
    i've two questions ;

    1- can this word עוד refer to past tense ? or just for future ? can any one explain plz ?

    ........
    here in this example how can i say that it's talking about future not the past tense
    ולא קם ישוע עוד
    some people say that here the word קם is a subject not a past and it should be translated to :
    yashua will never raise again
    others say that it's talking about past tense and should be translated to :
    yashua didn't raise till now

    what is the right translation ? and r there any refrences ( dictionaris or books ) of the right translation that i can use to depate ?

    regards
    Welcome to the forums, Heretic :)

    לא...עוד can mean "still" or "not yet" or "no more". I would translate your example ולא קם ישוע עוד as "And Yeshua rose no more" (or "did not rise again") if it is supposed to be modern Hebrew or "Yeshua will not rise again" if it's supposed to be in biblical language.

    (The difference is that in biblical Hebrew we have the "vav of conversion" which changes the tense of the verb. One of our colleagues who is much better at grammar than I can explain.)
     

    HERETIC-

    New Member
    Egyptian-Arabic
    Thanks Nun-Translator :cool:

    Now I understand that "vav of conversion" is the key of changing the meaning from past tense to future tense and this is clear in the biblical 'evrit
    This "vav of conversion" does it change the verb in the past tense into a subject ? Or what ?
    And does the word
    עוד has an effect on the translation ?

    I've been searching the bible for an example to understand your explanation and I found this one ( Deuteronomy 34:10 )
    ולא קם נביא עוד בישראל כמשה אשר ידעו יהוה פנים אל פנים
    Here can I translate it into "No prophet will araise again in Israel like Moses whom
    YAH knew face to face" ?

    One of our colleagues who is much better at grammar than I can explain.)
    Thanks , And I'm waiting for someone to explain more .

    Regards

     
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    Tararam

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    I believe, and it's only my opinion, that "od" isn't referring to the future.
    Furthermore, I don't recall hearing it in a future sentence, in such a sentence the words "Shuv" (again) or "Yoter" (more, anymore) are often used.
    I would translate the biblical sentences above with the perfect tense.
    "No prophet has risen in Israel like Moses..."
    "Yehuda hasn't risen since"

    I believe the sentences are written in the past tense on purpose.
    Conjugating the verbs in the past gives the reader the impression that "no prophet" or "yehuda" has risen since (including the period in which the reader is reading the sentence) thus making the sentence eternal.
    A simpler explanation is that the biblical writer is stating that these events have lasted up to his time at least (a more literal meaning).

    Hope it's clear...
     
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    jdotjdot89

    Senior Member
    American English
    Just to be clear, the "vav of conversion" or "ו"ו ההיפוך" only is applicable when it's a part of the verb in question. Thus, ויאמר means "he said," and "ואמרת" means "you will say," but קם does not mean "will rise" here. I think that Tamar's version with the perfect is best.
     

    jdotjdot89

    Senior Member
    American English
    Or "Jesus does not rise again," given that without the nikkud here, the verb's tense is ambiguous. How did you get a sentence like that in Hebrew? Are you looking at a Hebrew translation of the gospels?
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    What about in the following?

    לא אוסיף עוד לעשות חסד עמכם

    How would you translate it here?

    My translation of this sentence without עוד would be "I will not continue to do kindness with you.". I don't know what עוד would add.
     

    JAN SHAR

    Member
    pashto
    Here's something similar in the bible:

    הכוני בל חליתי הלמוני בל ידעתי מתי אקיץ אוסיף אבקשנו עוד
     
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