....תנא דבי אליהו ששת אלפים שנה הוי העולם שני אלפים תוהו שני

Malki92

Senior Member
English - USA
Hello all, could someone please give me the vowel points (or transliterate, I'd rather you provide the vowel points but whatever is easier for you:)) for this and translate it for me?

תנא דבי אליהו ששת אלפים שנה הוי העולם שני אלפים תוהו שני אלפים תורה שני אלפים ימות המשיח בעונותינו שרבו יצאו מהן מה שיצאו מהן

Thanks very much, May God bless you all! (PS I hope it's the full quote, if not it comes from מסכת עבודה זרה פרק א)
 
  • arielipi

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    you know its aramaic right? hebrew is too far off to be intuitively translated. luckily...im here. anyhow, no common knows how to proper point vowels.


    first off - ill transliterate it, as aramaic is very backward-forward language.
    oh, and remember a around, e bed, i in, o or, u uno, (y) near silent y. [X]/[Y] will be either this or that. ' will be when a throatic sound follows another sound. First time (w)(h) is h, with quiet w.
    tana debey eliyahu, sheshet alafim shana h[e]/[a]vey ha'olam[;]/[-] shney alafim to(w)(h)u, shney alafim tora, shney alafim y[ea]/[e]//[ee]/[ei]/[any other i sound, its a very soft one]mot hamashi'akh. be'avonote(y)nu sherabu yatz'u mehen ma sheyatz'u mehen.

    tana debey eliyahu - tana of eliyahu's bet midrash(a place learning torah).
    X alafim shana - X thousand years.
    sheshet - six, shney - two.
    hevey ha'olam - the world exists.
    to(w)(h)u - chaos.
    yemot hamashi'akh - days of messiah.
    be'avonotenu sherabu yatz'u mehen ma sheyatz'u mehen - because of our sins that became so many(grew so much) [they - messiah days people, did someone say x men?] turned how they turned [to be].
     

    origumi

    Senior Member
    N/A
    תַּנָּא דְבֵי אֵלִיָּהוּ שֵׁשֶׁת אֲלָפִים שָׁנָה הָוֵי הָעוֹלָם שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים תֹהוּ שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים תּוֹרָה שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים יְמוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ בַּעֲו‍ֹנֹתֵינוּ שֶׁרַבּוּ יָצְאוּ מֵהֵן מָה שֶׁיָּצְאוּ מֵהֵן.

    A Tana (= teacher) from the Eliyahu house (said): six thousand year the world exists, (of which) two thousands (years of) chaos, two thousands (years of) Torah (= teaching), two thousands (years) days of Mashiah (= Messiah). With our many sins the result is whatever the result is.
     

    arbelyoni

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    My humble attempt:
    תָּנָא דְּבֵי אֵלִיָּהוּ שֵׁשֶׁת אֲלפִים שָׁנָה הֲוֵי עָלְמָא שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים תֹּהוּ שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים תּוֹרָה שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים יְמוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ בַּעֲוֹנֹתֵינוּ שֶׁרַבּוּ יָצְאוּ מֵהֵן מַה שֶׁיָּצְאוּ מֵהֵן

    "The Tanna debe Eliyyahu taught: The world is to exist six thousand years; the first two thousand years are to be void; the next two thousand years are the period of the Torah, and the following two thousand years are the period of the Messiah. Through our many sins a number of these have already passed [and the Messiah is not yet]." (according to this site).

    Edit: oops, origumi is quicker than me...:eek:
     
    Last edited:

    Malki92

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    Thanks guys. I appreciate all the help! God bless you all.
     
    Last edited:

    origumi

    Senior Member
    N/A
    arbelyoni's answer above is similar to the latter version (Sanhedrin). The meaning is identical, the changes are minimal, e.g. Aramaic עלמא instead of Hebrew עולם.
     

    Malki92

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    Yeah, I reread it again and realized I could fully understand it. I think mehen and mehem are just the same words but in different dialects of Aramaic.

    Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated.
     

    JaiHare

    Senior Member
    English (American)
    Aramaic:
    תַּנָּא דְבֵי אֵלִיָּהוּ...
    Hebrew:
    שֵׁשֶׁת אֲלָפִים שָׁנָה...
    Aramaic:
    הָוֵי...
    Hebrew:
    הָעוֹלָם שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים תֹהוּ שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים תּוֹרָה שְׁנֵי אֲלָפִים יְמוֹת הַמָּשִׁיחַ בַּעֲו‍ֹנֹתֵינוּ שֶׁרַבּוּ יָצְאוּ מֵהֵן מָה שֶׁיָּצְאוּ מֵהֵן.

    The passage is actually mostly in Hebrew. The reason that מהן is given in the feminine is because it refers to the שנים (years - feminine) in question. Aramaic words heavily influenced the Hebrew of the Talmud, so it's no surprise to find הוי or even יהא instead of יהיה. We even have יהא show up in modern Hebrew! The only real oddity is the use of שני אלפים instead of אלפיים, but that can be understood in an unpointed text from that period, since the two needed to be separated off to distinguish אַלְפַּיִם (alpayim) from אֲלָפִים (alafim).
     
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