السوق الاسود

Jana337

Senior Member
čeština
مرحبا,

why is it الطريق الطويلة but السوق الاسود when both السوق and الطريق are feminine?

شكرا

ينا
 
  • elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    This is one of those "common errors."

    Because سوق does not "look" feminine (that is, it lacks the ة ending), many people mistakenly use masculine adjectives with it.

    Do a Google search for حرب with a masculine adjective and I'm sure you'll find similar results. Nevertheless, everybody always says only الحرب العالمية الأولى - but maybe that's like a "fixed expression."

    Also, nouns like عروس ("bride") would never be used with masculine adjectives because they are obviously feminine.

    Where did you find this?
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    :confused::confused::confused:
    In Hans Wehr and in the grammar book by Haywood and Nahmad. I cannot think of more reputable sources for learners!

    H & N have a paragraph about feminine adjectives after masculine-lookinig nouns like rijlun saghiratun etc., but then in one exercise I found as-suuqu qadiimun.

    Hans Wehr has several adjectives with suuq, all of them masculine.

    Jana
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Could they be giving examples of popular usage, that may or not be grammatically correct?
     

    Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    I don't know but I am skeptical. Why would a grammar book give incorrect but popular examples without warning the readers?

    For the record, I checked the suuq entry in Hans Wehr again: It says that the gender is mostly female (no idea what mostly means :)) and it gives a couple of examples for both masculine (mushtarak) and feminine (7urra) collocations.

    Jana
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Now I'm stumped. "As-suuqu 'l-7urra" sounds great to me (in fact, the masculine wouldn't sound as good), but so does "As-suuqu 'l-mushtarak" (the feminine here would not sound as good).

    Before you shared these details, I blithely assumed that it was technically feminine but was sometimes used with the masculine due to the lack of a feminine ending (by the way, in colloquial Palestinian Arabic we almost always use masculine adjectives with it - as with "7arb" - with the exception of "is-suu2 il-7urra," which I thought was a "fixed expression" like "il-7arb il-3aalamiyye 'l-2uula). However, the fact that both uses seem to be supported as correct sheds new light on things.

    Could it be that this particular noun allows both genders, depending on the adjective that follows? Sounds quite ridiculous but you never know. :)

    Let's wait for more informed contributions.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    What I know is : suuq and tariiq are both feminine, but we use them as masculine in colloquial
    suuq kabiir
    tariiq tawiil
    Bur in Fus7a suuq only comes in feminine -as much as I know- :
    as-suuq as-sawdaa2
    as-suuq al-7urra
    As for tariiq, I can't come with an example, but will look in some grammar books and get back to you :)
     
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