بل

F

flancy

Banned
Romanian - Romania
I opened up Saheeh al Bukhaaree just for fun and came across this:

قَالَ هَذَا الْقَوْلَ مِنْكُمْ أَحَدٌ قَطُّ قَبْلَهُ قُلْتُ لاَ قَالَ فَهَلْ كَانَ مِنْ آبَائِهِ مِنْ مَلِكٍ قُلْتُ لاَ قَالَ فَأَشْرَافُ النَّاسِ يَتَّبِعُونَهُ أَمْ ضُعَفَاؤُهُمْ فَقُلْتُ بَلْ ضُعَفَاؤُهُمْ قَالَ أَيَزِيدُونَ أَمْ يَنْقُصُونَ قُلْتُ بَلْ يَزِيدُونَ

Why did he reply with "بل ضعفاؤهم" when "ضعفاؤهم" alone would have sufficed? Does بل add anything here?
I don't think you would normally say "بل زيد." when replying to "أزيد جاء أم عمرو؟".

One a side note, there should have been a همزة الاستفهام before أشراف, but that is probably omitted due to a mistake by a scribe. It is present before يزيدون though.
 
    • بل is used for emphasis, and yes, you can say بل زيد in response to أزيد جاء أم عمرو؟.
     
    That's really strange. Can you give any other example of بل being used for emphasis? I cannot find this meaning in my grammar books.
     
    Here’s an example from an old thread: Revival Meeting

    I said, أتمنى أن تكون إجابتي مفيدة بالرغم من التأخير.

    The response was, بل مفيدة! يعطيك العافية.
     
    بل is used in several different ways. In this particular case it is used as حرف عطف That is proceeded by a negation, it agrees with the negation and affirms the opposite that should be mentioned after. The simplest example is ما كان زيد حاضرا بل غائبا, or ليست السيارة حمراء بل صفراء. In the example you gave, the negation is omitted because it is evident from the question before it.

    The question: فَأَشْرَافُ النَّاسِ يَتَّبِعُونَهُ أَمْ ضُعَفَاؤُهُمْ
    The answer with the omitted part underlined: ما تبعه أشراف الناس بَلْ ضُعَفَاؤُهُمْ
     
    Since بَلْ has two different meanings, how can you tell which one was intended? For instance, مَا قَامَتْ عَائِشَةُ بَلْ خَدِيْجَةُ could mean either "Ayesha didn't stand but Khadija did" or "Ayesha didn't stand, no, Khadija didn't stand.", right? The same goes for قَامَ زَيْدٌ بَلْ يَعْقُوْبُ, I guess.
     
    Thanks. I know about بل meaning although here it seems to be used like توكيد like بلى isn't it? Or is it another meaning or بل?
     
    Hemza said:
    Thanks. I know about بل meaning although here it seems to be used like توكيد like بلى isn't it? Or is it another meaning or بل?
    Click to expand...
    It May be used to confirm the opposite or something else

    like: أرأيت زيدا؟! He answer: بل عمرو!

    Which sentence when you said here?!

    you mean this بل

    It is same as the above example he asked with doubt and the answer removes doubts
     
    elroy said:
    Here’s an example from an old thread: Revival Meeting

    I said, أتمنى أن تكون إجابتي مفيدة بالرغم من التأخير.

    The response was, بل مفيدة! يعطيك العافية.
    Click to expand...
    @Romeel I mean in these examples. To me, it seems that بلى suits the sentence as well hence I thought this بل may come from بلى (and not from بل to mean "but/otherwise/yet".
     
    Hemza said:
    @Romeel I mean in these examples. To me, it seems that بلى suits the sentence as well hence I thought this بل may come from بلى (and not from بل to mean "but/otherwise/yet".
    Click to expand...
    I think they are two different letters حرف

    These tool letters are fixed and never change

    1. بَلَى: (حرف/اداة)
      • حَرْفُ جوابٍ لِلتَّصْديقِ يَقَعُ بَعْدَ لا النَّافِيَةِ فَيَجْعَلُهُ إِثْباتا، التغابن آية 7زَعَمَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا أَنْ لَنْ يُبْعَثُوا قُلْ بَلَى وَرَبِّي لتُبْعَثُنَّ (قرآن) وَتَأْتِي جَوَاباً لِلاسْتِفْهامِ الْمَقْرونِ بِنَفْيٍ الأعراف آية 172أَلَسْتُ بِرَبِّكُمْ قالُوا بَلَى (قرآن)ً
    2. بل: (حرف/اداة)
      • حرف عطف بمعنى لكن، يدخل على المفرد وقبله نفي أو نهي فيقرِّر ما قبله ويثبت ما بعده، وإذا كان قبله إثبات أو أمر جعله كالمسكوت عنه ويثبت الحكم لما بعده ما حضر سليم بل أخوه، ارْو لنا شيئًا من نثرك بل من شِعْرك،
      • حرف يفيد الانتقال من معنى إلى آخر أهمّ أنا لا أتقاعس بل أحضّ المتقاعسين على العمل
      • حرف عطف يفيد الإضراب تزاد قبله (لا) لتوكيد ما بعده هو النهر الدافق في عطائه لا بل البحر الخضمّ، وجهك البدر لا بل الشمس لو لم يقض للشمس كِسفَة أو أفُولُ
     
    Hemza said:
    Is this بل related to بلى?
    Click to expand...
    No.
    Hemza said:
    Thanks. I know about بل meaning although here it seems to be used like توكيد like بلى isn't it? Or is it another meaning or بل?
    Click to expand...
    بل is used as توكيد, but بلى is not.

    بلى simply means “yes”, it implies no توكيد what so ever. What makes you think it implies any توكيد?
    Hemza said:
    @Romeel I mean in these examples. To me, it seems that بلى suits the sentence as well hence I thought this بل may come from بلى (and not from بل to mean "but/otherwise/yet".
    Click to expand...
    The only case that it’s related is a case of a typo since بل is not used as a contraction of بلى.
     
    Mahaodeh said:
    بل is used as توكيد, but بلى is not.

    بلى simply means “yes”, it implies no توكيد what so ever. What makes you think it implies any توكيد?
    Click to expand...
    I've been taught that نعم is merely "yes" while بلى and أجل are used to insist on something. Here is an example:
    هل فقدت الرياضة؟
    بلى/أجل فقدتها (I do miss it).
    Or
    ألا تريد أن تصبح فلاح؟
    بلى/أجل! (Of course I would like to).

    I always thought that بلى and أجل were equivalent of "si" in French (used like "yes" when you want to contradict your interlocutor)

    And in the example provided by @elroy , I thought that بلى and أجل would suit as well. I understand بل meaning but I thought it was related to توكيد and that بلى and أجل were أدوات التوكيد. But the definition provided by @Romeel shows that بلى is used to deny something, it follows a negation so I understood that it doesn't suit elroy's example.
     
    Perhaps you would like to see this thread then.

    أجل would work as it’s used to affirm a statement rather than a question, but it’s not توكيد either.
     
    Can بل be used as a حرف توكيد in these examples? That’s what the meaning seems to be. It doesn’t seem to be a حرف عطف.
     
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