تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ

Salman1

New Member
Persian
I am trying to make sense of what is meant by تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ in the following hadith:

قَالَ ٱلْمَجُوسُ لِمَ سُمُّوا۟ مَجُوسًا؟ قَالَ لِأَنَّهُمْ تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ، وَٱدَّعَوْا۟ عَلَىٰ آدَمَ وَٱبْنِهِ شِيثٍ هِبَةِ ٱللَّٰهِ...

Can anyone help me understand what this means?

My translation so far is “He said: The Majus, why were they named Majus? He replied: Because the [??] regarding (?) Syriac, and accused Adam, and his son Sheeth Hibatullah...”
 
Last edited:
  • DWill

    Member
    English
    The only thing I was able to find was in مقاييس اللغة لابن فارس:

    (مَجَسَ) الْمِيمُ وَالْجِيمُ وَالسِّينُ كَلِمَةٌ مَا نَعْرِفُ لَهَا قِيَاسًا، وَأَظُنُّهَا فَارِسِيَّةٌ، وَهِيَ قَوْلُنَا هَؤُلَاءِ الْمَجُوسُ. يُقَالُ: تَمَجَّسَ الرَّجُلُ، إِذَا صَارَ مِنْهُمْ.
     

    Salman1

    New Member
    Persian
    The only thing I was able to find was in مقاييس اللغة لابن فارس:

    (مَجَسَ) الْمِيمُ وَالْجِيمُ وَالسِّينُ كَلِمَةٌ مَا نَعْرِفُ لَهَا قِيَاسًا، وَأَظُنُّهَا فَارِسِيَّةٌ، وَهِيَ قَوْلُنَا هَؤُلَاءِ الْمَجُوسُ. يُقَالُ: تَمَجَّسَ الرَّجُلُ، إِذَا صَارَ مِنْهُمْ.
    Thanks, but would you be able to provide the English meaning of تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ? I’m confused what فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ means in this context.
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    So are we. This is an unusual way to use both تمجّس and سريانية.

    It seems that, based on context, the author means one of two: either he is claiming that تمجّس in the Syriac language means the same thing as تنجّس in Arabic (I have no idea if there is merit to this claim but I doubt it), or

    he is confusing the meanings of words, where he is using تمجّس with the meaning of تنجّس and السريانية with the meaning of either Christianity or perhaps to refer to الصابئة that speak a dialect of Aramaic.
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    I don't think it's a hadith because as far as I know nobody has attributed it to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم). What is the source of this saying, Salman1?

    But it is true that the verb ܐܬܡܓܫ exists in Syriac and means 'to adopt Zoroastrianism' (see attachment). For instance,

    ܫܕܠ ܐܢܘܢ ܕܢܬܡܓܫܘܢ
    He flattered them so they would adopt Zoroastrianism.
    (Bhce3 41:6 [P. 374])
     

    Attachments

    • Bildschirmfoto 2021-05-21 um 8.40.52 AM.png
      Bildschirmfoto 2021-05-21 um 8.40.52 AM.png
      47.3 KB · Views: 17
    Last edited:

    Wadi Hanifa

    Senior Member
    Arabic
    It seems that, based on context, the author means one of two: either he is claiming that تمجّس in the Syriac language means the same thing as تنجّس in Arabic (I have no idea if there is merit to this claim but I doubt it), or

    But where does it say it means the same as تنجّس? As far as I can tell, it just says that it's a Syriac word and doesn't say anything about it meaning the same as تنجّس. The closest thing to an explanation of the word's meaning is وادعوا على آدم وابنه شيث ("they made false claims about Adam and his son Seth").

    The way I read it is "because they were said to have tamajjasuu in Syriac as they had made false claims about Adam and his son Seth, the gift of God."
     

    Salman1

    New Member
    Persian
    he is confusing the meanings of words, where he is using تمجّس with the meaning of تنجّس and السريانية with the meaning of either Christianity or perhaps to refer to الصابئة that speak a dialect of Aramaic.
    My understanding is that in Islamic hadiths, the prophets from Adam (as) to Noah (as) were all سُرْيَانِيّ, so perhaps it has something to do with becoming Magians during that era (i.e. before the flood of Noah)?

    I don't think it's a hadith because as far as I know nobody has attributed it to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم). What is the source of this saying, Salman1?

    But it is true that the verb ܐܬܡܓܫ exists in Syriac and means 'to adopt Zoroastrianism' (see attachment). For instance,

    ܫܕܠ ܐܢܘܢ ܕܢܬܡܓܫܘܢ
    He flattered them so they would adopt Zoroastrianism.
    (Bhce3 41:6 [P. 374])
    It’s in Mujam al-Bahrain and several hadith books, I think either attributed to the Prophet (sa) or Jafar as-Sadiq (as).

    It’s actually a common misconception that the Magian/Majus religion is the same thing as Zoroastrianism. Magianism predates Zoroaster, who was the founder of one sect of Magians, and not even the most perdominent sect. The reason I mention this is because in the context of تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ, perhaps it could mean “they became Magians during the Syriac era” as I a mentioned above, which of course predates Zoroaster.


    What do you guys think, does “they became Magians during the Syriac era” make sense as a translation for تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ?
     
    Last edited:

    Sadda7

    Member
    Arabic
    My understanding is that in Islamic Hadiths, the prophets from Adam (as) to Noah (as) were all سُرْيَانِيّ, so perhaps it has something to do with becoming Magians during that era (i.e. before the flood of Noah)?


    It’s in Mujam al-Bahrain and several hadith books, I think either attributed to the Prophet (sa) or Jafar as-Sadiq (as).

    It’s actually a common misconception that the Magian/Majus religion is the same thing as Zoroastrianism. Magianism predates Zoroaster, who was the founder of one sect of Magians, and not even the most perdominent sect. The reason I mention this is because in the context of تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ, perhaps it could mean “they became Majus during the Syriac era” as I a mentioned above, which of course predates Zoroaster.


    What do you guys think, does “they became Majus during the Syriac era” make sense as a translation for تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ?
    That's what I first though too, and I guess maybe their تمَجُّس is what they're described with after "وادعوا على آدم وعلى شيث وهو هبة الله أنهما أطلقا لهم نكاح الأمهات والأخوات...والمحرمات من النساء", their legitimizing of ince*t?
     

    Wadi Hanifa

    Senior Member
    Arabic
    What do you guys think, does “they became Magians during the Syriac era” make sense as a translation for تَمَجَّسُوا۟ فِي ٱلسُّرْيَانِيَّةِ?

    You would not express it with this structure, though. It's not Arabic.

    I agree with Sadda7. The plainest interpretation of this text is that it's saying the following:

    1) These people were called majuus because they tamajjasuu
    2) tamajjasuu is a Syriac word (hence "they tamajjasuu in Syriac")
    3) the reason they were called this in Syriac is they wrongfully claimed that Seth, son of Adam legitimized incest.
     
    Top