جاء المدرس/المدرس جاء

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  • HotIcyDonut

    Senior Member
    Russian - Russia
    Nothing, almost. Both mean "the teacher came".

    The only difference is, when you put a verb before your actor/فاعل in your sentence, verb agrees with that actor in gender (masculine noun = masculine verb, feminine noun = feminine verb), but as for number, verb must always be singular, no matter what's number of your actor (singluar actor, dual actor, plural actor = singular verb. If it precedes the noun).

    E.g.

    المدرسون جاؤوا = جاء المدرسون = учителя (3 и больше) пришли
    المدرسان جاءا = جاء المدرسان = два учителя пришли

    المدرسات جئن = جاءت المدرسات = учительницы (3 и больше) пришли
    المدرستان جاءتا = جاءت المدرستان = две учительницы пришли
     
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    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    “unmarked” basically means “default”: Markedness - Wikipedia

    I would say that we use جاء المدرس by default: that we use it unless there’s a contextual reason to use المدرس جاء.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Ok, I know that apparently verbal sentences (starting a sentence with the verb) are preferred over nominal sentences in Arabic مبتدأ وخبر, but this doesn't mean that there's a difference in the meaning or that the nominal sentence requires more context.
    What am I missing? :)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I know that apparently verbal sentences (starting a sentence with the verb) are preferred over nominal sentences in Arabic
    For the record, I wasn't trying to say that verbal sentences are always preferred over nominal sentences. I was talking about this sentence in particular.
    this doesn't mean that there's a difference in the meaning
    I agree; there's no difference in meaning.
    or that the nominal sentence requires more context.
    What am I missing? :)
    What I mean is that we need a specific reason to use the nominal sentence, whereas the verbal sentence is used by default, with no need to justify using it.

    - ماذا حصل؟
    - جاء المدرس

    I think in this case, المدرس جاء would be unusual.

    أليس الطالب هو من جاء بالأدلة؟
    كلا، الطالب طلب مساعدة المدرس، والمدرس جاء بالأدلة

    Here, the nominal word order is used to emphasize that it was the teacher, and not the student, who produced the evidence.
     

    LiliaGaripovaRadikovna

    Senior Member
    Russian, Tatar
    @elroy, thank you very much) May I ask you, can I say this sentence with indefinite article?
    مدرِّسٌ جَاء.
    جاء مدرس.
    Or it's like in nominal sentence, we can't start a sentence with a word with tanvin?
    المدرس جميل. Or
    هو مدرس جميل.
     

    Wadi Hanifa

    Senior Member
    Arabic
    I just want to add that section 7.1.1 (under Chapter 7) of Clive Holes's Modern Arabic (which can be easily found online as a PDF) has an extensive and enlightening discussion of word order in Arabic. The gist of it is that is what is known (usually definite) precedes what is unknown (usually indefinite), but there are of course many other complications.

    @elroy, thank you very much) May I ask you, can I say this sentence with indefinite article?
    مدرِّسٌ جَاء.
    I think this type of sentence would be very rare outside of poetry or song lyrics.
     

    Ectab

    Senior Member
    Arabic-Iraq
    What I mean is that we need a specific reason to use the nominal sentence, whereas the verbal sentence is used by default, with no need to justify using it.
    That is called topicalization. In Japanese the particle "wa" is used to make a noun the topic of a sentence. I noticed that Arabic uses "mubtada" in a way that is very similar to how Japanese uses "wa". The topic of sentence isn't always the subject (as many of those who learn Arabic think):
    المدرس جاء إليه طالبٌ > A student came to the teacher (as for the teacher, a student came to him).

    So the difference between the two sentences is a subject vs topic difference.
    :
     
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