حتـى يودّ اللاثـم أَنْ لا يقلع فمَه عنه

dgwp

Senior Member
English (UK)
Another problematic sentence from the Travels of Ibn Jubayr and his description of the Black Stone in the Kaaba in Mecca (see "The Travels of Ibn Jubayr" - Wright and de Goeje, 1907, page 89) - full context given below. I'm struggling to understand the correct role of the last two verbs in the sentence (where the limited vowelling after حتـى is as given by Wright and de Goeje):

وللحجر عند تقبيله لدونة ورطوبة يَتَنَعَّمُ بِـهَا ٱلْفَمُ حتـى يودّ اللاثـم أَنْ لا يقلع فمَه عنه

I am not sure whether they refer to the person kissing the stone or his lips/mouth.


Full context:

وَٱلْـحَجَرُ ٱلْأَسْوَدُ ٱلْمُبَارَكُ مُلْصَقٌ فِـي ٱلرُّكْنِ ٱلنَّاظِرِ إِلَـى جِهَةِ ٱلْمَشْرِقِ وَلَا يُدْرَى قَدْرُ مَا دَخَلَ فِـي ٱلرُّكْنِ وَقِيلَ أَنَّهُ دَاخِلٌ فِـي ٱلْـجِدَارِ بِـمِقْدَارِ ذِرَاعَيْـنِ وَسَعَتُهُ ثُلْثَا شِبْـرٍ وَطُولُهُ شِبْـرٌ وَعَقْدٌ وَفِيهِ أَرْبَعُ قِطَعٍ مُلْصَقَةٍ وَيُقَالُ أَنَّ ٱلْقَرْمَطِيَّ لَعَنَهُ ٱللهُ كَانَ ٱلَّذِي كَسَرَهُ وَقَدْ شُدَّتْ جَوَانِبُهُ بِصَفِيحَةِ فِضَّةٍ يَلُوحُ بَصِيصُ بَيَاضِهَا عَلَى بَصِيصِ سَوَادِ ٱلْـحَجَرِ وَرَوْنَقِهِ ٱلصَّقِيلِ فَيُبْصِرُ ٱلرَّائِـي مِنْ ذَالِكَ مَنْظَرًا عَجِيبًا هُوَ قَيْدُ ٱلْأَبْصَارِ وللحجر عند تقبيله لدونة ورطوبة يَتَنَعَّمُ بِـهَا ٱلْفَمُ حتـى يودّ اللاثـم أَنْ لا يقلع فمَه عنه​
 
  • Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    يودّ : refer to the person kissing the stone.

    يقلع : if فمَه is accusative then the verb refer to the person kissing the stone
    but if it was فَمُه with ضمة on م then the verb will refer to the lips and يقلع would be مبني للمجهول and فَمُه is نائب فاعل
     

    dgwp

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    I see - that makes sense. Assuming that we have فمَه in the accusative then, is it correct that the second verb must then be قَلَعَ rather than أَقْلَعَ ?
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    Assuming that we have فمَه in the accusative then, is it correct that the second verb must then be قَلَعَ rather than أَقْلَعَ ?
    In this context the verb يَقْلَع is in present tense and the past form is قَلَعَ.
    In case of the verb أَقْلَعَ , the present is يُقْلِع and this verb is لازم and it needs only فاعل

    That is what I think.
     

    dgwp

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    As a native Arabic speaker, which verb is most likely here do you think?
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    The word فمه in the book is not accusative
    there isn't vowel on it
    so the verb will be يُقْلِع فمُه from the verb أقلع
    and يُقْلِع will refer to the mouth (lips) not the person.
    فمُه then will be فاعل
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    Sorry, but there is a vowel on it the book.
    I'm confused now.
    In my opinion as it فمَه then it is يَقْلَع from the verb قلع but I'm not sure so, tomorrow (if I don't forget) I'll ask my teacher.

    [Edit:]
    Or could it be on the ف not م
    (فَمه) ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    dgwp

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    I don't think so - in the 1852 version of the book it is written فَمَه
     

    dgwp

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    Here is my interpretation and translation of the latter part of it:

    يَتَنَعَّمُ بِـهَا ٱلْفَمُ حَتَّـى يَوَدَّ ٱللَّاثـمُ أَنْ لَا يَقْلَعَ فَمَهُ عَنْهُ ‘which the mouth enjoys until the person kissing it does not want to remove his mouth from it’
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    أَنْ لَا يَقْلَعَ فَمَهُ عَنْهُ
    This is like my opinion which I mentioned above.
    I didn't use the verb يَقْلَع before so this is may be the first time I see this verb
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    As a native Arabic speaker, which verb is most likely here do you think?
    My first instinct is: يَقلع فمَه عنه, I don't see a reason for the passive; and يُقْلع (from the verb أقلع يقلع) doesn't seem to make sense.
     

    Sun-Shine

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    My first instinct is: يَقلع فمَه عنه, I don't see a reason for the passive; and يُقْلع (from the verb أقلع يقلع) doesn't seem to make sense.
    The same as mine.
    It could be يُقْلِع but I think in this case it should be فمُه.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top