طاقت‌فرسا

Membre

Member
English/Français
Dorud! 😃What does “طاقت‌فرسا” mean exactly? It seems to mean anything from “demanding, trying” to “unbearable, insufferable”.
What would be a less ambiguous word for a “demanding” or “challenging” task or a “trying” experience without implying those are unbearable?

1. Demanding, challenging task: کار مستلز زحمت /
طاقت فرسا
2. Trying experience, ordeal:تجربه شاق
3. an insufferable person: یک آدم تحمل ناپذیر
4. an unbearable sound: صدای تحمل ناپذیر

I would assume that idiomatically you could also use “pedar-am darmiâvare” or “ خوان رستم” for 1. and 2.
Let me know what you think and please correct me if my translations are wrong and feel free to suggest other options.
Thanks in advance!
 
  • mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    Dorood bar shomaa.

    I can think of "gruelling" for طاقت‌فرسا. Your translations all seem to me to be just fine.

    An experience is said to be طاقت‌فرسا when it is uncomfortable, painful or laborious to the extent that it erodes the stamina.

    About خوان رستم, it is always هفت خوان رستم, The Seven Labours of Rostam.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    The first thing that came to my mind when I saw the compound طاقت فرسا was something that wears away/consumes one's power/energy. So, as mannoushka has said, your renderings are spot on.
     

    utopia62000

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Dorud! 😃What does “طاقت‌فرسا” mean exactly? It seems to mean anything from “demanding, trying” to “unbearable, insufferable”.
    What would be a less ambiguous word for a “demanding” or “challenging” task or a “trying” experience without implying those are unbearable?

    1. Demanding, challenging task: کار مستلز زحمت /
    طاقت فرسا
    2. Trying experience, ordeal:تجربه شاق
    3. an insufferable person: یک آدم تحمل ناپذیر
    4. an unbearable sound: صدای تحمل ناپذیر

    I would assume that idiomatically you could also use “pedar-am darmiâvare” or “ خوان رستم” for 1. and 2.
    Let me know what you think and please correct me if my translations are wrong and feel free to suggest other options.
    Thanks in advance!
    In addition to what others said, I give you some more explanation to throw more light on the case.
    طاقت فرسا is grammatically صفت فاعلی مرکب مرخم. ،The complete version is طاقت فرساینده. Now, طاقت is tolerance/sufferance and فرساینده (being shortened to فرسا ) means "grueling" or "erosive". So, طاقت فرسا refers to a situation which is unbearable or figuratively a very very difficult situation or task.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    The complete version is طاقت فرساینده. Now, طاقت is tolerance/sufferance and فرساینده (being shortened to فرسا )
    Jus a note here, فرسا is the present stem of فرسودن, the same way پیما is of پیمودن, semantically it is the same as فرساینده but it is not its shortened form, there are scores of Persian compounds made up of noun + present stem of a verb.
     

    Membre

    Member
    English/Français
    Jus a note here, فرسا is the present stem of فرسودن, the same way پیما is of پیمودن, semantically it is the same as فرساینده but it is not its shortened form, there are scores of Persian compounds made up of noun + present stem of a verb.
    indeed, it’s a common mechanism, one I quite like actually, niru-bakhsh, hava-peymâ, fazâ-navard, kešvar-gošâ, jahân-pažuh.. 😃
     

    utopia62000

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Jus a note here, فرسا is the present stem of فرسودن, the same way پیما is of پیمودن, semantically it is the same as فرساینده but it is not its shortened form, there are scores of Persian compounds made up of noun + present stem of a verb.
    These are not mutually exclusive.
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    indeed, it’s a common mechanism, one I quite like actually, niru-bakhsh, hava-peymâ, fazâ-navard, kešvar-gošâ, jahân-pažuh.. 😃
    Jahaan-pajooh is an adjective I am not familiar with. Does it mean 'world scholar', a sort of expert on everything?
     

    Membre

    Member
    English/Français
    Jahaan-pajooh is an adjective I am not familiar with. Does it mean 'world scholar', a sort of expert on everything?
    It’s a noun that means “explorer” apparently
     

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    utopia62000

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Can you please elaborate.
    سلام
    خب طبیعی است کلمات میتوانند نقش های مختلفی داشته باشند. فرسا اگرچه مثال خوبی نیست، ولی میتواند فعل امر هم باشد. در عین حال، همانطور که عرض کردم، وقتی همراه طاقت میاید، صفت فاعلی مرکب مرخم است. درست مثل میهن پرست، خداشناس، خود بین و امثال اینها که از انتهای همه اینها پسوند "نده" حذف شده و به همین دلیل به آنها مرخم (دم بریده) میگویند. در عین حال، کلمه پرست یا شناس میتوانند بجای فعل امر هم بکار روند. علاوه بر این، اینها، بن مضارع هم هستند و همانطور که عرض کردم اینها مانعه الجمع نیستند.​
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    با درود و سپاس

    I agree, except we don't know if this name:مرخم (دم بریده) was not given to this type of compound based on observation alone, unless we can find one or two examples of such compounds with "نده/andé" in old text, and see their evolution from 'with' to 'without' "نده/andé".

    The present stem of a verb in Persian is the one and only source that everything (to do with that verb) derivatives from, and imperative tense/فعل امر is one of them.
     
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    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    I have already forgotten the term used above for such words (due to sieve-memory syndrome), but I do think the curtailing must not be disputed, all because of those instances where the sefate faaeli is NOT curtailed, eg.,
    بیننده
    دونده
    خواننده
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I believe the present tense root as in فرسا ، پیما، افزا etc is the shortend form of the agential participle, i.e the eroder/increaser/measurer etc. I do not believe we can employ a compound such as روح فرسا as a فعل امر, that is to say the imperative.
     
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    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    Dehkhoda has a lot to answer for. There are other factors e.g. if the verb is transitive or otherwise.

    Let's apply Dehkhoda's theory, so agential participles are made by adding "نده/andé" to the present stem. They are shown in red as they are not currently in use in a meaningfully way, but may be used in the future:

    آب انبار and انبارنده from انباشتن
    سرفراز and فرازنده
    شاه پسند and پسندنده
    دستمال and مالنده
    کمربند and کمربننده
    there are others, انگیزنده, پراکننده, شناسنده, پیوندنده....

    Also consider these (present stem + suffix "ه").
    گیره گیرنده
    مالنده, ماله
    خوره, خورنده
    کنه, ‏کننده (kané, kandan)
    انگیزه, انگیزنده
    شکوفنده, شکوفه
    نشاننده, نشانه
    چکنده ,چکه
    ....
     
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