عند (to be over at someone's house)

lcfatima

Senior Member
English USA
Can someone explain the grammar behind using "and" for being over at someone's house?

As in:

taali baiti andik (come over to my house-f)

or

raah and bait ammu suleiman (he went over to Uncle Suleiman's house)
 
  • Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    عند MSA = 3ind, here means "at"; it's uses generally mean "beside", "at/to", "near" and "have with you/me/him". the original meaning according to dictionaries is: "a noun refering to the place or time of arrival", as per Lisan Al Arab:

    عِنْدَ بكسر العين ويجوز ضمَّها وفتحها اسم لمكان الحضور حقيقةً نحو جلست عند زيد ومجازًا نحو عند زيد علم, وتأتي لزمان الحضور نحو الصبر عند الصدمة الأولى وجئْتك عند طلوع الشمس. ولا تقع إلا ظرفًا كما مثل أو مجرورة بمن نحو جئْت من عندهِ فلا تقول عندُك واسع بالرفع , وقول العامَّة ذهبت إلى عندهِ لحنٌ والصواب ذهبت إليهِ

    I'm not quite sure of the first sentence, it seems wrong; the second means "he went at his uncle suleiman's house"; here it is a noun refering to the place of arrival.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    If you know French, عند works just like the French word chez in this context. The MSA pronunciation is "3ind," as Maha said. "3and" is an Egyptian pronunciation.
    taali baiti andik (come over to my house-f)
    This is wrong. It should be "ta3aali 3indi" or "ta3aali 3indi 3al-beet" (I assume you are interested in colloquial Arabic.)
    raah and bait ammu suleiman (he went over to Uncle Suleiman's house)
    This would not be used in Palestinian Arabic. We would say either "raa7 3ind 3ammo Slimaan (3al-beet)" or "raa7 3ala beet 3ammo Slimaan." "3ind il-beet" means "by the house" or "at the house" in the sense of "very close to the house."
    the second means "he went at his uncle suleiman's house"; here it is a noun refering to the place of arrival.
    I guess this was a typo because it should be "to" and not "at."
     

    lcfatima

    Senior Member
    English USA
    I wrote ta3ali baiti andik with -ik to not sound so UAE but I have heard people say "ta3ali baiti 3indich" a million times said to me personally, I am pretty sure it is correct in the local dialect at least.

    Thanks for the explanation, now I get it.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    It بات - يبيت - بياتاً It's fuS7a and also used in dialects.
    I'd transcribe your sentence like this:
    تعالي بيتي/باتي عندي
    In Egypt we'd say baati, but in some place, people say "bayyeti".

    P.S. Sorry Elroy, I didn't see your comment before posting (I got disconnected).
    So... I don't know why it's 3indich (You know that it's the colloquial pronounciation of 3indik) but maybe Fatima mis-heard that :confused:
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    I think elory's point is why 3inich - عندك. If you want someone to spend the night with you it would be: تعالي باتي عندي not تعالي باتي عندك because that would mean "come and spend the night with you", which does not make sense.

    Maybe fatima you mixed up two sentences?
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Exactly. I am aware that some dialects use "ch" for "k" when referring to the second person. My problem is with the use of the second person pronoun in the first place. :)
     

    gordlonious

    New Member
    English - America
    [Moderator note: Thread merged with the previous one about the same topic. Cherine]

    I've found examples in "Standard Arabic: An Elementary-Intermediate Course by Eckehard Schulz, Gunther Krahl and Wolfgang Reuschel". I do not know what the prep. عند 's function is within these sentences. عند is usually "at" in English?? How do these sentences make sense in Arabic?

    1. فاطمة عند الصديق
    2. محمد عند الأم
    3. الطالب عند المعلم

    #1 seems to read "fahtma is the friend" or "fahtma is with the friend"
    #2 seems to read "muhammad is with the mother"
    #3 translates to "student teacher" in Bing Translate or "student at teacher" with Google translate.

    Could someone please translate these for me? I would also like to understand prepositions and the preposition عند in Arabic. Online source references would help as well. Thank you.
     
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