فِرْدَوْس firdaws – Arabic, Persian, or Greek?

What is your (and everyone else's) take on the باب الفراديس (faradiis gate) of early Islamic Damascus?
Wasn't it the name of the northern entrance of the great Mosque? The mosque, esp. its inner facade facing north is decorated with plant motifs, probably symbolising paradise.
 
  • No it was the northern gate of the city. Sources say it got its name because it faced an area of orchards and gardens. No one says anything about the motifs on the mosque entrance (which sounds pretty far fetched as the mosque isn’t particularly close to the gate).
     
    I read it here (though it also has the city gate with the name, which I hadn't noticed). Is there a way to know which name is older?
     
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    No it was the northern gate of the city. Sources say it got its name because it faced an area of orchards and gardens. No one says anything about the motifs on the mosque entrance (which sounds pretty far fetched as the mosque isn’t particularly close to the gate).
    Correct. It was called باب الفراديس Bab Al-Faradis for the gardens/orchards in the area outside the gate which was known as al-Faradis.

    Bab El Faradees - Old Damascus

    If the Lisan statement to the effect that “The people of the Levant (Syria) call gardens and vineyards ‘paradises’” (أهل الشام يقولون للبستان والكروم الفراديس) is correct, it may well go back to pre-Islamic Greek.

    See also:

    “It was named the Paradise Gate in the Roman age because there were plenty of water and gardens which used to surround the gate” - The Gates of Damascus

    “Bāb al-Farādīs is considered by Arab authors an ancient gate, dedicated to Mercury (‘Uṭārid) and decorated, like the other gates, with a figurative representation (ṣūra) of the divinity (Ibn ‘Asākir, Ta’rīḫ madīnat Dimašq, I, p. 17; Ibn Kaṯīr, Bidāya, XIV, p. 242; Abū l-Baqā' al-Badrī, Nuzhat al-anām, p. 18; Ibn al-Faqīh al-Ḥamaḏānī writing at the end of the ninth century considers it an ancient gate (rūmī) (Buldān, p. 106)). The name al-Farādīs seems to date back to the Byzantine period; it designates in Greek “the gardens of Eden”, because this gate gave access, to the north of the city, to an area of orchards crossed by the [River] Baradā. The name continued after the Arab conquest”

    Jean-Michel Mouton, Jean-Olivier Guilhot, Claudine Platon, Portes et murailles de Damas de l'Antiquité aux premiers mamlouks : Histoire, architecture, épigraphie, Beirut, 2018, p.166
     
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    The name al-Farādīs seems to date back to the Byzantine period; it designates in Greek “the gardens of Eden”, because this gate gave access, to the north of the city, to an area of orchards crossed by the [River] Baradā. The name continued after the Arab conquest”
    Thank you. I understand this as meaning, that the Roman name is not attested and it is just an assumption. With respect to this question:
    What is your (and everyone else's) take on the باب الفراديس (faradiis gate) of early Islamic Damascus?
    My takeaway is that the name of the gate does not constitute direct evidence relevant to our question.
     
    Thank you. I understand this as meaning, that the Roman name is not attested and it is just an assumption. With respect to this question:

    My takeaway is that the name of the gate does not constitute direct evidence relevant to our question.

    Why does the name have to attested from Roman times? If the name dates from the Muslim conquest, and the Arabs gave it that name because it faced a lot of gardens, then that's enough to suggest the word already had that meaning in Arabic. The fact that the Arabic philologists consistently say it was a 'Syrian' word (even though most of them were based in Iraq) also strengthens the case for the word being known from the Arabic of Syria. Damascus specifically was a provincial capital with a heavy Greek presence, so I think the unanimity of the Arabic philologists that it is a word of Greek origin used by the people of Syria is correct. The Aramaic intermediary is not impossible but I don't see it as necessary and there's no evidence of it.

    The Qur'an's usage of the word is clearly linked to the Christian usage for the paradise of the afterlife, but this can be a totally separate move from the entry of the word itself into Arabic. It's possible Arabs of Syria used the word in two different senses, just as we do today.
     
    Why does the name have to attested from Roman times? If the name dates from the Muslim conquest, and the Arabs gave it that name because it faced a lot of gardens, then that's enough to suggest the word already had that meaning in Arabic.
    Because our question is if the immediate loan into Arabic is from Greek or from Aramaic (irrespective of the ultimate origin). If the Roman name included the word paradise (either in Latin or in Greek), then this would be tentative evidence that the Arabic word is a direct translation from Greek (or Latin but more likely Greek).
     
    Damascus specifically was a provincial capital with a heavy Greek presence, so I think the unanimity of the Arabic philologists that it is a word of Greek origin used by the people of Syria is correct.

    I think the key to it isn’t the gate, but the local landscape after which the gate was named.

    Essentially, there was this paradise-like landscape of gardens watered by the golden Barada (Χρυσορρόας Chryssorrhoas) and other streams outside the northern city-gate while inside the gate was the magnificent Temple of Jupiter where during religious festivals there would have been animal sacrifices followed by eating, drinking and entertainment. In other words, a veritable “paradise on earth”. And because the area was known as οἱ Παράδεισοι hoi Paradeisoi,”the Gardens” in Greek, it was called al-Faradis in Arabic from where the singular al-firdaws.

    Incidentally, Mercury may be of some relevance here as, like Greek Hermes, with whom he shared key attributes, he was the messenger of the gods and guide of the souls of the dead (psychopomp) to the afterlife. So, we have all the key elements of Paradise – afterlife, gardens and water, eating and drinking – that appear in the Quranic text.

    If to this we add the beautiful buildings, women and statues of Damascus and the description of Paradise found in Christian, Jewish and Hellenistic traditions in the region (but not in Arabian religion), I think this could have provided the basis for both the Quranic image of Paradise and its Arabic name.

    “I hope in exchange for life near to Allah, with houris fashioned like the most beautiful statues, with the highest Garden/Paradise for those who mount there …” (Ubayda ibn al-Harith in Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah, p. 350).
     
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    I don't think there's necessarily a link between the Faradis of Damascus and the Firdaws of the Qur'an (the Christian paradise of the afterlife is sufficient since the Qur'an explicitly says it is a continuation of Jesus's message). But I do think what you said explains the existence of the word فراديس in Arabic to refer to gardens and why the Arabic philologists said it was a Greek word used in Syria.
     
    Because our question is if the immediate loan into Arabic is from Greek or from Aramaic (irrespective of the ultimate origin). If the Roman name included the word paradise (either in Latin or in Greek), then this would be tentative evidence that the Arabic word is a direct translation from Greek (or Latin but more likely Greek).
    But it doesn't tell us much. Regardless of when the term was borrowed into Arabic, they would have had no problem using the word firdaws for paradeisos after they conquered Damascus (unless you also argue the firdaws verses in Quran were forged after Muhammad's death).

    It doesn't also tell us about potential early dates of the borrowing. The gate was apparently built in the Roman era, no earlier than 60BC, where other languages of interest were already using cognates of "paradise" with both its spiritual or material meanings. The location of the supposed lush gardens were proposed to have been a Roman burial ground (or close to them), which by a Roman custom would have been unsuitable for gardening and any other function. Therefore, we should look for the proper gardens in even a later Byzantine date which takes us closer and closer to where Arabs were well familiar with Christianity, making it difficult to justify borrowing of the word via a single gate's name.

    All of these, of course, is if we accept it being originally a Roman-era name (which doesn't mean a Greek name, by the way), which I don't see justified. Arabs changed (or translated) the names of all other gates (except Thomas, which was located in the survived Christian district).
    But I do think what you said explains the existence of the word فراديس in Arabic to refer to gardens and why the Arabic philologists said it was a Greek word used in Syria.
    It doesn't. There is a much easier explanation that I mentioned earlier. For an Arab philologist, there were two default options for the knowable etymology of non-Arabic words: Roman or Persian, because their knowledge of other languages and their effect on Arabic was severely limited. In Lisan, for example, Ibn Manzur barely recognises any Semitic etymology (except mostly for proper Biblical nouns, and not even all of them as he considers them as generic aʿjamī if he or his sources had recognised them as non-Arabic).

    In this case, the prima facie choice was Roman for Ibn Manzur who couldn't identify a cognate Persian word. He would have said this anyway regardless of the gate's name or usage by Syrians.
     
    But it doesn't tell us much. Regardless of when the term was borrowed into Arabic, they would have had no problem using the word firdaws for paradeisos after they conquered Damascus (unless you also argue the firdaws verses in Quran were forged after Muhammad's death).

    It doesn't also tell us about potential early dates of the borrowing. The gate was apparently built in the Roman era, no earlier than 60BC, where other languages of interest were already using cognates of "paradise" with both its spiritual or material meanings. The location of the supposed lush gardens were proposed to have been a Roman burial ground (or close to them), which by a Roman custom would have been unsuitable for gardening and any other function. Therefore, we should look for the proper gardens in even a later Byzantine date which takes us closer and closer to where Arabs were well familiar with Christianity, making it difficult to justify borrowing of the word via a single gate's name.

    All of these, of course, is if we accept it being originally a Roman-era name (which doesn't mean a Greek name, by the way), which I don't see justified. Arabs changed (or translated) the names of all other gates (except Thomas, which was located in the survived Christian district).

    It doesn't. There is a much easier explanation that I mentioned earlier. For an Arab philologist, there were two default options for the knowable etymology of non-Arabic words: Roman or Persian, because their knowledge of other languages and their effect on Arabic was severely limited. In Lisan, for example, Ibn Manzur barely recognises any Semitic etymology (except mostly for proper Biblical nouns, and not even all of them as he considers them as generic aʿjamī if he or his sources had recognised them as non-Arabic).

    In this case, the prima facie choice was Roman for Ibn Manzur who couldn't identify a cognate Persian word. He would have said this anyway regardless of the gate's name or usage by Syrians.

    Well, first of all Ibn Manzur was mainly compiling much older sources.

    Second, your description of Arabic philologists is a grossly unfair caricature. Ibn Manzur is only one of many sources, of course, but even a cursory search of his dictionary yields countless entries where his sources attribute words to Aramaic (which they call suryaaniyya), Hebrew or 'Nabati' (a catch-all term for Aramaic and Punic, but usually referring to the Aramaic of Iraq). Yes, they made mistakes and of course they couldn't trace a word back to its ultimate origin with the knowledge and techniques available at the time, but they did clearly make an effort to identify the proximate source of a word and it was based on more than just lazily throwing words into two baskets called 'Greek' and 'Persian'.

    Third, the philologists were reporting this based on empirical observation, not pure speculation. Their informants were Syrians who could tell them that the word was used by both Arabs and Greek-speakers and that it referred to gardens and inferred that the Arabs got the word from Greek. This is pretty clear from the reports and I see no reason to discount them.
     
    I had done a cursory search of the book before writing that post (though I hadn't considered Nabati). Most سریاني and عبراني (+ah) seemed to be Biblical.

    But it doesn't change the spirit of what I said. If your example depicts what had happened, he (or his source) might have had asked or heard one person who had been in Syria (not from Syria, necessarily), telling him he had heard people there using firdaws, and trustfully had concluded ahl of Syria would say that (assuming as an official in North Africa he had limited time being in Syria to observe this personally). Would have the linguist bothered to double check like one would have done for a hadith? This is hearsay not empirical observation (though I agree that people in Syria used firdaws for "garden").

    Whether they made an effort or not is not the issue, it is the fact that their lack of knowledge made their effort similar to speculation, if not worse. Imagine if one of them had read OT in Hebrew seeing pardes in it. They would have considered it absolutely Hebrew (considering that they would have accepted its traditional dating). Or imagine the philologists were familiar with the work of Xenophon (i.e. the fact that paradeisos was a Persian garden), they might have said it came to Arabic from Persian. What we have here is circumstantial, depending which source got lucky being observed by a linguist and under what condition. And in this fortune, they had a few options (granted more than two) to make the effort of choosing between by observing what was usually brought to their attention by circumstance.

    by both Arabs and Greek-speakers
    I'm not familiar with the inter-ethnic attitude of the time, but in the scenario you described, would the linguist have ever thought of a "Nabati" origin if used by Arabs, Greek speakers and "Nabateans"? Would have he assumed the possibility of Greek borrowing from "Nabati"?
     
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    I don't think there's necessarily a link between the Faradis of Damascus and the Firdaws of the Qur'an (the Christian paradise of the afterlife is sufficient since the Qur'an explicitly says it is a continuation of Jesus's message). But I do think what you said explains the existence of the word فراديس in Arabic to refer to gardens and why the Arabic philologists said it was a Greek word used in Syria.

    It isn’t just the Arabic philologists. Even Wiktionary says it’s a back-formation from the plural فَرَادِيس‎ (farādīs) that could have been borrowed from Greek παράδεισος (parádeisos). There is no mention of “Aramaic”.

    Unfortunately, the activists from the Aramaic Society (or brigade) of Aussieland think otherwise so you’re wasting your time! 😂
     
    "Even Wikitionary says" 😁😁😁. Thus spoke Wikitioshtra! Do you even know what Wikitionary is? FYI, it's an open website where anyone can add to it as they please, leaving it to the mercy of revisions and corrections. At least try to do better than your copy-paste attitude and try to find its source.

    The idea of back formation from plural is an example of the argument by circumstantial evidence that I mentioned (that is not my conclusion but a point made early by Jeffrey, and probably others before him). Regardless of firdaws' origin, its plural would have likely been farādīs or farādis(ah), anyway. In other words, the same argument for it is also against it. Certainly. Arabs might have mistaken it for plural due to its lucky similarity. But we might be mistaking the singular for a back formation due to the same lucky similarity.

    Look at this example: بلغم balgham and درهم dirham likely come from Gk. phlegm and MP. drahm (<Gk.), respectively. Despite similar sound changes, and despite the Arabic's tendency to create CVCCVC words, only the latter is considered a derivation from broken plural (< darāhim < drahm) (e.g., Shaked in his 1993 paper at Medioiranica). Why? Why would it be easier for him to think of adding two vowels, one of them long, instead of just a precedented metathesis (VC>CV)? What's the explanation except that, due to chance, the original word for the latter sounded closer to the Arabic plural but the former's didn't?

    One interesting note: the word frds is found in multiple Hismaic and one Safaitic (WH 1403.2) inscriptions, though as names of people. So their meanings can't be inferred (on the surface, the suspects would be parallels or borrowing from Aramaic prdws or prds).
     
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    Third, the philologists were reporting this based on empirical observation, not pure speculation. Their informants were Syrians who could tell them that the word was used by both Arabs and Greek-speakers and that it referred to gardens and inferred that the Arabs got the word from Greek. This is pretty clear from the reports and I see no reason to discount them.
    Absolutely correct. In a culture based on oral transmission of knowledge, people tended to have very good memories spanning many generations.

    It should be obvious that it makes no sense to believe that prior to the arrival of Islam, Damascus had no gardens or orchards watered by the river that ran just outside the city, or that its inhabitants, including ethnic Arabs and Arameans, didn’t know the Greek word for “garden” when Damascus had been a Hellenistic city for many centuries.

    In addition, Arabic firdaws (a) is primarily associated with “garden, orchard” and not with “royal park” (as the original Persian) and (b) it seems to designate “a group of gardens”. In consequence, it could perfectly well have passed into pre-Islamic Arabic as a plural directly from Greek (παράδεισοι parádeisoi > فَرَادِيس parādīs/farādīs) after which it became “the Garden” (al-Firdaws) in the sense of “Paradise”, presumably under Christian influence.

    However, I am inclined to believe that not only Arabic firdaws but Hebrew פַרְדֵּס pardes and Aramaic פַּרְדַּיְסָא pardaysa are also borrowed from Greek instead of Persian. If this turns out to be correct, it would provide additional support for Arabic firdaws being a direct loan from Greek.

    The reason why we need to consider a Greek derivation for pardes/pardaysa is that the default position assumes a (more or less direct) loan from Persian for which, however plausible it might seem, there is no hard evidence.

    Briefly, פַרְדֵּס pardes, “garden, orchard, park” in the Hebrew Bible occurs at Song of Songs 4:13, Nehemiah 2:8 and Ecclesiastes 2:5. Song and Ecclesiastes are traditionally believed to have been composed by a certain “King Solomon” and therefore, presumably, relatively early.

    Song starts with the affirmation that “this is Solomon’s Song of Songs”, but this appears to be a spurious claim for which there is no evidence whatsoever. In fact, there is no evidence that Solomon as described in the HB was a historical person and even less that he wrote poetry, so this seems to be a text that was misappropriated for politicoreligious reasons.

    Moreover, although Song was later interpreted as an allegory of the “love between God and Israel” it actually is about two human lovers and seems out of place in a religious text. But further problems come to light on closer examination. For example, as suggested in Wikipedia and elsewhere, Song

    1. Has language supporting a date around the 3rd century BC;

    2. Seems to reflect contact with Greek culture;

    3. Has parallels with the compositions of Greek poets such as Theocritus (a court poet at Alexandria) and Philodemus (who was from Jordan in Seleucid Syria);

    4. The earliest MS fragments are from the Herodian period;

    5. Was included in the Jewish Canon in the 2nd century AD and may have been used for non-religious purposes earlier.

    6. Refers to places associated with Lebanon which is inconsistent with a text supposedly composed in the southern kingdom of Judah, etc., etc.

    As pointed out by the Encyclopaedia Judaica, “The fact that for two centuries Palestine was part of Hellenistic kingdoms, first of Ptolemaic Egypt and then of Seleucid Syria, made Greek influence on Jewish thought and life inevitable … Jason the high priest carried his Hellenizing to the extent of establishing Greek educational institutions, the gymnasium and ephebeion, and of founding Jerusalem as a Greek city, Antioch-at-Jerusalem …” - Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 8, p. 786 ff.

    Additionally, if Song is composed in the style of a Greek drama (dramatic performance) as some scholars have suggested, it seems reasonable to assume some connection with the wider Hellenistic tradition introduced to the region after Alexander’s conquests, which persisted well into the Christian Era.

    Certainly, statements like “Come with me from Lebanon, descend from the peak of Amana, from the summits of Senir and Hermon” (4:8); “Garden spring flowing down from Lebanon” (4:15); “The Tower of Lebanon towards Damascus” (7:4), etc., suggest a connection with the northern areas of Lebanon and southern Syria and brings us very close to the paradise-like garden landscape of Damascus and environs.

    Amana or Abana is identified with the River Barada (Chryssorrhoas, “streaming with gold”) which, together with Pharpar from the same mountain range, runs by Damascus and waters the landscape discussed earlier. The reason why Syria is important is that it was a major cultural influence in the region.

    In particular, Syria was a major centre of Hellenistic and Christian civilisation. Damascus itself is associated with St Paul as is Antioch and it is clear from Paul’s epistles that he used to address the new Christian communities in Greek.

    The same is true of Luke whose name is Greek (Λουκᾶς Loukas) and who may have been Syrian or Greek. Indeed, Luke’s native city Antioch was founded in 300 BC as a Greek city settled with Athenians and Macedonians as well as with some native Syrians and Jews. As the capital of Roman Syria, Antioch was a Greek-speaking Hellenistic city almost the size of Alexandria.

    Similarly, Damascus became a Greek city under the Seleucid Empire and was later rebuilt by the Romans and incorporated into the Decapolis group of Hellenistic cities in the region which stretched southwards all the way to Philadelphia in Jordan.

    It may be worth noting that "recent scholarship has concluded that it is probable that Jesus himself sometimes spoke Greek” (Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 8, p. 787), which shows that direct contact with Greek goes back to the very beginning of Christianity and applies to all major ethnic groups in the region.

    In summation, there can be no doubt that some Arabs had direct knowledge of Greek and this was the language through which at least some of the early Arab converts became acquainted with Christian teachings. There is no reason to assume that Greek-speaking Arabs had to wait for somebody to translate a Greek word into Aramaic or Syriac. 😀

    Incidentally, the Encyclopedia of Arabic Language and Linguistics, p. 1839 in its discussion of derivational processes of Arabic nouns gives “firdaws ‘paradise’ (< Greek parἀdeisos)” as an example of retrograde derivation where parἀdeisos is reanalysed as a plural pattern to which a singular pattern is added or as a quinqueliteral back-formation (where w is taken as a root consonant).

    On Song of Songs see also:

    Joan B. Burton, “Themes of Female Desire and Self-Assertion in the Song of Songs and Hellenistic Poetry”, Anselm C Hagedorn, ed., Perspectives on the Song of Songs, 2005, pp. 180-205.

    Patrick Hunt, Poetry in the Song of Songs: A Literary Analysis, 2008.

    David M. Carr, The Formation of the Hebrew Bible: A New Reconstruction, 2011.

    Matthias Rüdiger Hopf, “The Song of Songs as a Hebrew ‘counterweight’ to Hellenistic drama”, Journal of Ancient Judaism, 2017 8(2): 208-221.
     
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    There is no strong evidence that Song of Songs is even post-exilic, let alone Hellenic, not a single word, style or theme to decisively direct us that way (mind that pardes is probably not Persian but Median, so it could have entered Hebrew, as did in Akkadian, during the Exile period and before the Persian takeover).

    It is interesting that people can't even imagine the possibility that Theocritus was inspired by SoS not vice versa*, despite the fact Alexandria was partly a Jewish city at the time; despite the fact that his Idylls, the romanticisation of a shepherd's lifestyle, was the reality for many rising nomadic and semi-nomadic Semitic cultures of the time; and despite the fact that Hebrews had historically been shepherds. Yet their default thought would be that the Greek poet innovated and contributed to the all-receiving Semitic cultures, rather than adopting what the latter had had for hundreds of years. This is how deep Hellenocentrism runs around the topic. By the way, the actual source in Wikipedia (Mueller, that is cited in some other sources) emphasises the similarity of the SoS themes and pre-Hellenic Semitic and Egyptian themes, though they also considered the possibility of Greek influence, ultimately by the merit of the controversial apiryon whose etymology and meaning are both unclear (and probably unclear to the LXX translators too).

    As for paradeisos, the evidence provided so far suggests the possibility of a Hebrew (semantic) source for the Greek word, not vice versa, by the tasting method of your own medicine. The oldest Greek paradeisos seems to be in LXX (by the limited evidence I could find). Before that (Xenophon, Thoephrastus), the word was used more akin to a foreignism, a word which the authors put to discuss its foreign context or to show off their mastery of language. Hence, it was not "Greek" back then (indeed, in Xen. Economics, Socrates is quoted that paradeisos is what Persians call it). They used it specifically to refer to a certain land use in a certain socio-geography, while using native Greek words for every other gardens everywhere else. But it was after LXX, apparently, that its usage get closer to a normal "garden".

    It's not "incidental" that this encyclopedia has reiterated the idea of plural back formation. It's the same old hypothesis. There is no new material to increase its probability. This fifth-letter w is one reason why it is not convincing. Why would they imagine the fifth letter? Why would they use rare aw instead of common ū? This means there is something at work here that we don't know. It might have just been that Arabs didn't like a quadriradical word with -ayC ending (is there any?) so they changed it -awC. Maybe they just liked to lengthen vowels (Arabic names for many Biblical characters have longer vowels than their Hebrew or Aramaic version). Maybe they wanted to rhyme it with something (like pairs جالوت and طالوت, or عیسی and موسی), I don't know the rainbow in آeaven for example (القوس فی الفردوس) :rolleyes: ;maybe someone messed it up and everyone else repeated because he was an elder or something (like how borrowings are occasionally corrupted in every language). There are plenty of possible explanations out there, and there is no reason to assume the linguistically interesting back formation is a better answer.

    * I found that people have done this actually, but I still kept the notion here for emphasis.
     
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    The reason why we need to consider a Greek derivation for pardes/pardaysa is that the default position assumes a (more or less direct) loan from Persian for which, however plausible it might seem, there is no hard evidence.
    The portions of the Hebrew Bible containing the term pardes (פרדס p-r-d-s) belong to the so-called Ketuvim (“Writings”) which are the final section of the HB. That they are later than traditionally assumed is supported by the archaeological and historical data. Israel Finkelstein and Neil Asher Silberman write:

    “The Writings are a collection of homilies, poems, prayers, proverbs, and psalms. In most cases, they are extremely difficult to link to any specific historical events or authors. They are the products of a continuous process of composition that stretches over hundreds of years. Although the earliest material in this collection (in Psalms and Lamentations) may have been assembled in late monarchic times or soon after the destruction of Jerusalem in 586 BCE, most of the Writings were apparently composed much later, from the fifth to the second century BCE – in the Persian and Hellenistic periods” – Finkelstein and Silberman, The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, 2002, p. 6.

    If we take the year 500 BC as the upper limit and 100 BC as the lower limit for the composition of the texts in question, we obtain the median of 300 BC, which is a little over one generation into the Hellenistic period (332 – 63 BC).

    Had pardes entered Hebrew before this date, we should expect it to occur in earlier texts. But it doesn’t. Moreover, it occurs only three times: describing a woman (Song of Songs 4:13); a royal park (Nehemiah 2:8); and orchards (Ecclesiastes 2:5).

    Presumably, the word was first used in the original sense of “park” and “garden, orchard” before being used metaphorically to describe the female body, in which case Nehemiah would be the earliest occurrence, followed by Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs coming last. This is consistent with the natural semantic development of a loanword.

    Now Nehemiah, the governor of Persian Judea after which the book is named, was active in about 450 – 400 BC when Jerusalem was only being rebuilt and there could have been no question of “royal parks”. And Persian rule ended only a few decades later when Alexander conquered the Persian Empire. As the Book of Nehemiah was clearly composed after Nehemiah and redacted even later, this falls within the Hellenistic period.

    Meantime, as Athens and allied cities had become a rising economic and military power, Greek cultural influence in Palestine had been steadily growing with the introduction of Athenian coins in the 6th and 5th centuries, establishment of trading posts and import of Greek ceramics, artwork and other luxury items bought especially by the upper classes.

    As Greek paradeisos was borrowed by Xenophon directly from Persian in the original sense of “royal park” in about 400 BC, that is, well before 300 BC, this means that it could have been the immediate source for Hebrew pardes/Aramaic pardaysa. Indeed, the word would have been borrowed fairly early in the Hellenistic period by the upper classes of Judea who were in close contact with the Greek rulers as well as being familiar with the works of the great Greek philosophers and poets.

    As indicated above, Song in particular has many parallels with Greek poetry (especially of the genre associated with weddings) in terms of style, composition, expressions, etc. and was regarded as an epithalamium (Greek ἐπιθαλάμιον epithalamion) or wedding-song of the kind performed among the Greeks since the days of Pindar, by Church Fathers like Origen (Commentary, Homilies on the Song of Songs) who were steeped in Greek culture. In fact, it was its very similarity with Greek poetry that seems to have motivated the rabbis to reinterpret it allegorically as a religious text and – after much debate – to include it in the Judaic Canon:

    “Although the canon was substantially closed by 250 B.C.E., an argument as to the propriety of including the Song of Songs and Ecclesiastes in the Bible was apparently not settled until about the year 90 C.E. … it was admitted to the Bible only after a struggle, and then, apparently, because it was seen as an allegory of the love of God for Israel …” Encyclopaedia Judaica, Vol. 13, pp. 85, 229.

    It has also been suggested that Song was composed in Alexandria. See, for example, Anselm C Hagedorn, “What Kind of Love Is It? Egyptian, Hebrew, or Greek?”, Die Welt des Orients, Vol. 46, 1 (2016), pp. 90-106. However, this changes nothing about the date which remains the same and clearly places pardes within the Hellenistic period. Moreover, an Alexandrian composition would increase the likelihood of pardes being borrowed from Greek.

    In any case, pardes was hardly a high-frequency term and Greek paradeisos would have been used both more frequently and over a larger area, in particular, among the Jewish Diaspora and the wider Hellenistic world with which Aramaic- and Arabic-speakers had contact.
     
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    Had pardes entered Hebrew before this date, we should expect it to occur in earlier texts.
    There is no reason to expect this. Absence of a word is not an evidence for its later borrowing (it's the presence that may be evidence against later borrowing). Many native Hebrew words do not appear anywhere in the Bible, does it mean they couldn't have existed earlier? Why should we expect a secondary (or tertiary, or+) word for garden or enclosure to have appeared there?
    a high-frequency term and Greek paradeisos
    There is no high-frequency of paradeisos before LXX, at least according to the resources in Tuft's repository. It's just two authors both familiar with Persia, and both writing about Persia (comparable to how we 're writing here about paradeisos or firdaws here. Does it make them English words?). It seems the Greek couldn't care less about the word for around two centuries until, for some reason, it was revived and repurposed in a general sense (around the time of LXX finalisation). I don't know why, and I don't really care. My point is that we can argue for two exact opposite conclusions (as also in case of Theocritus' Idylls) based on different interpretations of available fragmentary data (and even if we luckily find material showing earlier native Greek usage, it doesn't undermine my point but just just supports my previous point, that how we are at the mercy of luck). But if someone has a predisposition towards a certain viewpoint, they would aggrandise one interpretation over the other(s), and turn blind eye on the evidence against theirs and for the other. Some examples:
    Greek cultural influence in Palestine had been steadily growing with the introduction of Athenian coins in the 6th and 5th centuries
    6th and 5th century? This is the Exilic and Persian period. The "upper class" of Judea was likely concentrated, like in many other civilisations, in their capital which was almost destroyed and a significant part of that upper class were exiled to Babylon. But you don't think of these and instead argue for a Greek influence, over a Persian one, in a period that the region was under control of the Median-alliance or Persia, and the supposedly influenced people were in Babylon or Persia (not to mention that the Hebrew rendering is almost exactly like the 500BC Akkadian, while the Greek word has a deliberately added á between r and d). Seriously!
    As indicated above, Song in particular has many parallels with Greek poetry (especially of the genre associated with weddings) in terms of style, composition, expressions, etc. and was regarded as an epithalamium (Greek ἐπιθαλάμιον epithalamion) or wedding-song of the kind performed among the Greeks since the days of Pindar
    This is another good example of this attitude. You argue for a Hebrew borrowing of a "Greek" word or concept because of only 200 years of supposed trade-based influence, but you are oblivious to 2000 years of Egypto-Semitic dominion* in the region (remember the Greek alphabet, even most the letter names, are originally semitic; Greek zodiac is Babylonian; Greek medicine may have roots in Near Eastern medicine; Even Greek philosophy and mathematics is suggested, by both ancient and modern scholars to have Babylonian or Egyptian roots). So, why is your default position that this poetic genre was originally Greek?
    as well as being familiar with the works of the great Greek philosophers and poets.
    "Great" philosophers and poets? Who? Why would have anyone outside Greece given a special damn about those poets and philosophers? Have you thought about the possibility that the reason we think of their greatness is their forceful imposition on the rest of Near East as a consequence of Alexander's conquests (not before it)? But again, you seem to have thought of a default greatness and attraction of the Greek culture, worthy of adoption by others much earlier.

    * For the record, I'm not arguing that theirs was originally invented by themselves either.
     
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    Moreover, an Alexandrian composition would increase the likelihood of pardes being borrowed from Greek.
    It is generally acknowledged that some of the later sections of the Hebrew Bible were composed, committed to writing, or redacted under Hellenistic influence either in Alexandria or in Judea itself. In any case, the HB is not a monolithic text produced in its entirety at a particular point in time (such as the supposed time of “Moses”) but the result of a prolonged literary and cultural effort spanning many centuries. It is therefore essential to separate its component parts according to linguistic, literary and historical considerations.

    If we look at the history of Greek paradeisos, it was introduced by Xenophon (430 – 350 BC) in the sense of “enclosed park of the Persian kings” and then used in the sense of “garden” by writers like Theophrastus (370 – 287 BC), a pupil of Plato and Aristotle, e.g. “gardens of/around Babylon” (Theophrastus, Περὶ φυτῶν ἱστορία, Peri phyton historia, 4.4.1) and thus probably predates Hebrew pardes and Aramaic pardaysa by over a century. I think the evidence is overwhelming (and in the case of firdaws supported by mainstream sources like the Encyclopedia of Arabic Language and Linguistics, p. 1839) and it should not be suppressed for political or ideological reasons.

    Additionally, paradeisos occurs not only earlier but also much more frequently than pardes and I think this is a reflection of the greater influence of the Hellenistic world compared to that of Judea, rendering a borrowing from Greek more likely, indeed, highly probable as detailed below.

    <off-topic text removed>
     
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    If we look at the history of Greek paradeisos, it was introduced by Xenophon (430 – 350 BC) in the sense of “enclosed park of the Persian kings” and then used in the sense of “garden” by writers like Theophrastus (370 – 287 BC), a pupil of Plato and Aristotle, e.g. “gardens of Babylon” (Theophrastus, Περὶ φυτῶν ἱστορία, Peri phyton historia, 4.4.1).
    (b) paradeisos occurs in Greek texts much more frequently than pardes does in Hebrew texts,
    "Garden of Babylon" (i.e. a capital of the Persian empire) not just "garden". That's basically what I said about the limitation of its usage only for high gardens in Persia. There is no evidence, at this point of discussion, that paradeisos was a Greek word before LXX. By the way, pardes occurs more in Hebrew texts (3 authors) than Greek (2 authors) before LXX (one author repeating a word is not really evidence of its more frequent usage). Higher frequency of later usage is also not evidence for its originality. Just for the record, I'm not arguing for a loanshift from Hebrew to Greek, but I'm just saying the evidence that we two have can make this interpretation possible, the same way the evidence that we have can make the opposite interpretation possible (in both cases, not "probable"). Not to be distracted, this is about firdaws. We have enough evidence for the practice of all the possibilities I mentioned, which can make all possible.

    By the way, you're just repeating the same pro arguments while neglecting the contras against it and pros for other arguments. The entire region was literally under hard Persian control since Cambyses. However, you are turning blind eye on the full control of Persian over Levant in favour of a soft pre-Alexander Greek influence over that region. You speculate because there were Greek colonies there, Jews would have been interested in their culture, and so have read their books in Greek (despite an equally plausible speculation, if not more, that Jews would have disliked those Greeks who exploited their weakness and established colonies in their God-given land). Meanwhile, what we know for fact in that time is they wrote a book about Persia (Esther) not Greece, showing Persian linguistic influence, not Greek influence. But your mind is so attached to the idea of a Greek origin that you can't think that these hard facts are at least as strong as your speculation, if not more. Just look at your own linked source below. You see the bold part?
    The Persian control of the land of Israel ended in 332 B.C.E. with the conquest of Israel by Alexander the Great. Though Greek culture had been important earlier, a more significant type of Hellenization began at this time. It typically was not forced, but represented the desire of particular people and social classes to adopt the prestigious and attractive customs of the Greeks – much like their ancestors adopted Assyrian, Babylonian, and Persian customs

    all biblical texts changed during their transmission. They were updated, expanded, and made to fit their broader context
    There are 300,000 words in the Hebrew Bible. Were all of them changed? What was the percentage of changed wordings? You don't know, do you? So, the only fact here is that some words somewhere were changed. But this general fact is translated in your mind as this specific word is changed at a specific period, to feed to your Greek origin hypothesis. This interpretation to specificality based on generic data is a very good example of a prejudiced rush to conclusion.
     
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    The reason why we need to consider a Greek derivation for pardes/pardaysa is that the default position assumes a (more or less direct) loan from Persian for which, however plausible it might seem, there is no hard evidence.

    I think any literate person can see that παράδεισος paradeisos is used by Xenophon in the sense of “royal park (of the Persian kings)” (Anabasis 1.2.7; 2.4.14; Cyropaedia 1.3.14; Hellenica 4.1.15) and by Theophrastus in the general sense of “garden” (Historia Plantarum 4.4.1) and that the word is also attested in a 300 BC inscription from the Temple of Artemis at Sardes (“καὶ παραδείσοι δύο σπόρου ἀρτα(β)ων” – American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 16, p.13) and in the Cairo Zeno Papyri (P.Cair.Zen.) 59125, third century BC:

    “Ἀπολλώνιος Ζήνων[ι χαίρ]ειν. ὀρθ̣[ῶς] ἐποίησας συντάξας εἰς τὸν παράδεισον τ̣ὸ̣[ν ἡμέ]τερον τῆς καλλιελαίου ἐλαίας καὶ τῆς δαφνίδ̣ος τὰ μοσχεύματα ἐμβαλεῖν. 5ἔρρωσο. (ἔτους) κθ, Αὐδναίου κδ, Χοίαχ κδ.”

    “Apollonius (finance minister to Ptolemy II Philadelphus) to Zenon (his secretary) greeting. You have done well to order that the olive and laurel shoots should be planted in our park (paradeisos). Farewell. Year 29, Audnaios 14, Choiak 14”.

    This clearly demonstrates that the gardens and parks of royal temples and palaces were referred to as paradeisos (pl. paradeisoi) by the time they were built by the Greek rulers after Alexander’s conquests.

    The use of the word by Xenophon and Theophrastus writing on the Greek mainland, as well as in the Sardes Inscription of Asia Minor and by Apollonius writing in Egypt, suggests a much wider use of Greek paradeisos than of Hebrew pardes which occurs only three times in the Hebrew Bible.

    Paradeisos in the LXX is a Greek word used by the Jews who committed the LXX to writing and obviously constitutes evidence of its use by Jews. In contrast, there is no evidence of Greeks using Hebrew pardes. And there were more Jews speaking Greek than Hebrew, which is precisely why the LXX was written in the first place. This provides additional evidence for the preponderance of Greek paradeisos over Hebrew pardes.

    The fact that the Samaritan Pentateuch doesn’t contain any of the Ketuvim texts and that there was resistance to the inclusion of some of them in the Hebrew Bible itself indicates that some of these texts, in particular, Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs that contain the word pardes and are alleged to have been “authored by Solomon”, were regarded as questionable from the start.

    According to Wikipedia, “the first edition of the combined Ezra–Nehemiah may date from the early 4th century BC; further editing continued well into the following centuries”.

    In consequence, if Nehemiah, Ecclesiastes and Song of Songs were composed or redacted (in Alexandria) around 300 BC or later as seems likely, then pardes (p-r-d-s) could perfectly well have been borrowed from Greek, considering that it is nowhere securely attested prior to paradeisos.

    The only difficulty that arises is the entrenched and unsubstantiated belief that the Writings (Ketuvim) were written by “Solomon” millennia BC. Once we have grasped the need to separate linguistics and history from religion (or superstition) the matter becomes crystal clear.

    And if pardes/pardaysa was borrowed from Greek by speakers of Hebrew/Aramaic in the Early Hellenistic period, Arabic firdaws could likewise have been borrowed either from Greeks in the Hellenistic period or from Greek-speaking Christians in the first century AD.

    Of course, the possibility still remains that فردوس firdaws was borrowed in or just before the time of Mohammad as already indicated. However, all facts considered, the probability is that it was borrowed earlier and directly from Greek as suggested by ancient sources like Lisan al-Arab, there being no logical necessity for an “Aramaic” intermediary:

    Al-firdaws is of Rumi (i.e. Greek)-Arab origin, and is a garden” (الفردوس أصله رومي عرب ، وهو البستان al-firdaws 'asluh rumiun earab , wahu al-bustan) – لسان العرب Lisan al-Arab 11:50

    In fact, the idea that firdaws is a loan from Aramaic was popular with Aramaists in the 1800s and from what I see it has long been abandoned by most scholars ...
     
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    and that the word is also attested in a 300 BC inscription from the Temple of Artemis at Sardes
    You couldn't grasp what the point is, and fell into the trap 😁. The point was that it is irrelevant if you now found evidence of older Greek usage. It was that, yesterday, you didn't know about them (otherwise you would have happily inundated this thread with it), and you are lucky now that they existed (I said "the evidence that we two have" at that point). The question was not if Hebrew loaned the meaning into Greek (as is irrelevant to this thread, as also implied in my previous post). The question was that how, when evidence is limited, the known evidence can drastically support diverse interpretations. This notion is relevant to the thread because there is very limited evidence regarding the formation of firdaws and all we have are different contexts and comparable derivations, which make different routes of its formation plausible. I don't really know how much you can understand this abstract point. We'll see soon I guess, if you continue to mass copy paste in your posts.
     
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    I think any literate person can see that παράδεισος paradeisos is used by Xenophon in the sense of “royal park (of the Persian kings)” (Anabasis 1.2.7; 2.4.14; Cyropaedia 1.3.14; Hellenica 4.1.15) and by Theophrastus in the general sense of “garden” (Historia Plantarum 4.4.1) and that the word is also attested in a 300 BC inscription from the Temple of Artemis at Sardes (“καὶ παραδείσοι δύο σπόρου ἀρτα(β)ων” – American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 16, p.13) and in the Cairo Zeno Papyri (P.Cair.Zen.) 59125, third century BC:
    It ought to be obvious that all the references in the above paragraph are from Lidell & Scott Greek-English Lexicon:

    “ὁ (also παράδισος SIG463.8 (Crete, iii B. C.)),

    A enclosed park or pleasure-ground, Oriental word first used by X., always in reference to the parks of the Persian kings and nobles; π. μέγας ἀγρίων θηρίων πλήρης An.1.2.7; π. δασὺς παντοίων δένδρων ib.2.4.14; τὰ ἐν π. θηρία Cyr. 1.3.14; θῆραι… ἐν περιειργμένοις παραδείσοις HG4.1.15, cf. Thphr. HP 4.4.1, AJA16.13 (Sardes, 300 B.C.) LXX Ne.2.8 …”

    In addition, SIG (Sylloge Inscriptionum Graecarum) 463.8 referenced by LSJ states:

    “ἐπειδὴ βασιλεὺς Πτολεμαῖος παραλαβὼν τὰν τῶν Ἰτανίων πόλιν καὶ πολίτας παρὰ τῶ πατρὸς βασιλέως Πτολεμαίω καὶ τῶν προγόνων, καλῶς καὶ ἐνδόξως εὐεργετῶν διατελεῖ καὶ διαφυλάσσων μετ’ εὐνοίας ἐν οἷς παρέλαβε πολιτευομένος τοῖς αὐτῶν νόμοις, ἔδοξε τᾶι βουλᾶι καὶ τᾶι ἐκκλησίαι· ἱαρὸν τέμενος ἱδρύσασθαι τὸν παράδισον τὸν πρὸς τᾶι πύλαι βασιλέως Πτολεμαίου καὶ βασιλίσσας Βερενίκας τᾶς τῶ βασιλέως Πτολεμαίω ἀδελφᾶς καὶ γυναικός· θύσει δὲ ἁ πόλις κατ’ ἐνιαυτὸν τοῖς γενεθλίοις βασιλεῖ Πτολεμαίωι καὶ βασιλίσσαι Βερενίκαι καὶ δρόμον συντελέσοντι ∶ τὸ δὲ ψάφισμα τόδε οἱ κοσμητῆρες οἱ μετὰ Σωτηρίω γράψαντες ἐς στάλαν λιθίναν ἀναθέντων ἐς τὸ ἱαρὸν τᾶς Ἀθάνας τᾶς Πολιάδος

    “… it is resolved by the council and the assembly to establish the garden (paradeisos) near the gate as a sacred precinct (hierón temenos) of king Ptolemaios and queen Berenike … The superintendents in office with Soterios shall inscribe this decision on a stone stele, and put it up in the temple of the Athena Polias …”

    It logically follows that παράδεισος paradeisos was the designation for the palace and temple gardens of the Hellenistic rulers and owing to its association with temples it carried the implied connotation of “sacred enclosure” (ἱερόν τέμενος hierón temenos) as explicitly stated at SIG 463.8 above and, by extension, of “abode of the divine”, which over time naturally developed into “Paradise”.

    In other words, Greek paradeisos already carried the connotation of “divine garden” prior to the LXX and it may have been borrowed into Arabic, or at least known to some Arabic-speakers in this sense, even before Christianity, e.g. at Antioch, the capital of the Seleucid Empire, which was closely associated with the gardens or parks of the temple complex of Daphne and was famed throughout the Hellenistic world including among the Jews.

    Unfortunately, we can’t expect trolls to grasp the concept of “dictionary” or to use online sources to educate themselves … :)
     
    If we look at the history of Greek paradeisos, it was introduced by Xenophon (430 – 350 BC) in the sense of “enclosed park of the Persian kings” and then used in the sense of “garden” by writers like Theophrastus (370 – 287 BC), a pupil of Plato and Aristotle, e.g. “gardens of/around Babylon” (Theophrastus, Περὶ φυτῶν ἱστορία, Peri phyton historia, 4.4.1) and thus probably predates Hebrew pardes and Aramaic pardaysa by over a century.
    By “gardens of Babylon” Theophrastus doesn’t mean the mythical “Hanging Gardens of Babylon” – no such gardens were ever found – but the palace gardens (paradeisoi) “by or around” (περὶ = “near, around”) Babylon:

    “Although Harpalus [Alexander’s friend] took great pains over and over again to plant it [ivy] in the gardens of Babylon, and made a special point of it, he failed: since it could not live like the other things introduced from Hellas. The country then does not admit this plant on account of the climate, and it grudgingly admits the box and the lime; for even these give much trouble to those engaged in the gardens.” (4.4.1).

    Theophrastus, Enquiry into Plants (Περὶ φυτῶν ἱστορία/Historia plantarum)

    The point is that Theophrastus uses “paradeisos” in the sense of “garden” which represents an intermediate stage from Xenophon’s “royal park”: (1) royal park > (2) palace garden > (3) garden/temple garden. Indeed, the careful analysis of the available sources including the works of Classical authors, papyrus documents and inscriptions, enable us to form a fairly clear idea of the evolution of Greek paradeisos and the material and cultural context in which it took place.

    Already in the fourth century BC, prominent citizens of Athens such as Plato, Aristotle, Epicurus and Theophrastus himself, owned private gardens typically dedicated to particular deities and associated with their schools and gymnasia (the latter being themselves set in wooded parks and dedicated to patron deities). In the decades following Alexander’s conquests (when Theophrastus was putting his observations to paper), larger garden projects were carried out across the Hellenistic world, such as the Mouseion complex (dedicated to the Muses) built by the Ptolemaic rulers at Alexandria (which also contained the famous library), and Seleucus I’s even larger garden complex at Daphne by Antioch (already mentioned) which was actually an extensive park landscape with majestic trees, natural springs and waterfalls surrounding a temple.

    Of course, the original setting for places of worship was not a man-made garden but a natural grove (ἄλσος álsos). However, though the Ancient Greeks had no walled royal parks like the Persians, they did have temples. By definition, the temple (ναός naós, “dwelling”), was the “abode of the deity” and this was clearly extended to the temple precinct (τέμενος témenos) which was usually surrounded by a fence or wall.

    Once paradeisos had been introduced in the fourth century BC and began to be used in the sense of “enclosed garden”, this sense was transferred to the temple garden itself. Thus, Greek gardens or “paradises” were seen in a religious context by the beginning of the Hellenistic era. This was particularly the case in Egypt where Hellenistic gardens were probably influenced by the palace and temple gardens of earlier Egyptian rulers.

    It must also be recalled that, like their Egyptian predecessors, Hellenistic monarchs were regarded as divine and the presence of statues (regarded as living deities) served to enhance the divine status of the gardens they planted. “Ἐφύτευσε Κύριος ὁ θεὸς παράδεισον” (“The Lord God planted a garden”) corresponded to the divine king planting a temple garden.

    This is precisely why paradeisos was used in the LXX to describe Gan Eden (גן-עדן) at Bereshit (Genesis) 2:8-10. Had it not carried this religious connotation, there would have been no reason for the preferential use of paradeisos over kepos, the more general term for “garden”.

    And if Jews were familiar with Greek paradeisos, it seems reasonable to assume that Arabs living in or next to Greek-speaking areas probably knew it too. Whilst the absence of Arabic literature prior to the Quran leaves a large gap in our knowledge, the extensive Greek-Arab contact from the Early Hellenistic period, including through Hellenistic cities such as Gadara, Pella, Gerasa and Philadelphia, means (a) that firdaws/pirdaws could have entered Arabic prior to the Christian Era and (b) that the most likely source was Greek.

    It is a well-known fact that in the Early Hellenistic period, that is at the time of the LXX translation, many Jews had adopted aspects of Greek religion and culture. A similar development probably took place among Arabs, especially those who had close contact with Hellenistic cities. It is therefore not inconceivable that some Arabs used the word in a religious sense.

    In any event, Greek paradeisos seems to have had a religious meaning before Aramaic pardaysa while Hebrew pardes was not used in a religious sense. This raises the interesting possibility that paradeisos at Luke 23:43 and 2 Corinthians 12:4 is a direct descendant of its Hellenistic precursor, not the translation of a non-Greek term. But this may be worth exploring on another thread.
     
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