كرّم الله وجهه

eac

Senior Member
USA, English
Hi all. Can you help me with the part of this sentence in red?:
و أكد المواطنون العراقيون في النجف ان زيارة الامين العام لمرقد علي كرم الله وجهه كان لها اثر كبير في نفوس كل العراقيين في المدينة​
 
  • cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    eac said:

    و أكد المواطنون العراقيون في النجف ان زيارة الامين العام لمرقد علي -كرَّم الله وجهه- كان لها اثر كبير في نفوس كل العراقيين في المدينة


    First I'll give the transliteration of this part : karrama-Allahu wajhahu, kana laha atharun kabirun.... I put two dashes - - to show that the karram Allahu wajhahu is sort of seperat sentence; it literary means : May Allah honor his face. It's sort of asking God to Bless Aly (the cousin of the Prophet Mohamed, and husband of his daughter Fatima).
    So the sentence can be translated as :
    The Iraqi citizens in Najaf confirmed that the Secretary General's visit to the shrine of Imam Ali, may God bless him, had a great effect on all the Iraqis of the cities.
    Of course it's not the best translation you can get, but I hope i could at least clarify the sense of the sentence.
     

    eac

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    Aha.

    What was throwing me off was that I assumed that the first part of the sentence meant "the visit to the shrine of Imam Ali honored God," and so I thought that the part in red represented a new clause. I was wondering why there was no conjunction. (There were no dashes in the original) I understood the last part about having a great impact on the souls of all Iraqis. Your explanation makes sense. Thanks.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    eac said:
    What was throwing me off was that I assumed that the first part of the sentence meant "the visit to the shrine of Imam Ali honored God," and so I thought that the part in red represented a new clause.
    You're welcome :)
    Little something to help in such sentences : كرم الله can't be the end of the sentence for it lakes an object : either a word (like wajhahu in this sentence) or a ضمير :for example : كرمه الله
     

    eac

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    Now, hold on. Are you saying that this sentence is impossible:

    دعاءه كرم الله​
    Translation: His prayer honored God, or his prayer did reverence to God.

    The problem I was having was that I thought الله was the object of كرم, and زيارة was the subject. (Perhaps زيارة is feminine because of the ending, but I thought all مصادر were automatically masculine?) So I thought the sentence was, "...the visit to the gravesite honored God." I see your point, though. The sentence was just confusing without the dashes.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    eac said:
    Now, hold on. Are you saying that this sentence is impossible:

    دعاءه كرم الله​

    Translation: His prayer honored God, or his prayer did reverence to God.

    The problem I was having was that I thought الله was the object of كرم, and زيارة was the subject. (Perhaps زيارة is feminine because of the ending, but I thought all مصادر were automatically masculine?) So I thought the sentence was, "...the visit to the gravesite honored God." I see your point, though. The sentence was just confusing without the dashes.
    Of course that sentence is possible - the difference is that in that case الله is the object.

    I can see how you were confused - it was just that you were not aware that كرم الله وجهه is a fixed (parenthetical) expression.

    As for مصادر, they are not all masculine. "The visit honored God would be الزيارة كرمت الله.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Sorry guys, but I still believe that this sentence, as is, is not possible :
    first, the simple addition of Elroy, proves what I say. (grammatically speaking)
    second, in what concerns the meaning itself : it IS impossible; you don't honor God, at least not in the context of Islam. You glorify Him, you Adore him.. even if the expression "to honor God" is acceptable, it sure won't be expressed like this. Trust me :)
    Little note: "Karrama Allahu Wajhahu" is a fixed expression that is used, to my knowledge, only with Imam Aly.
     

    NICE-LADY

    Member
    ARABIC
    و أكد المواطنون العراقيون في النجف ان زيارة الامين العام لمرقد علي كرم الله وجهه كان لها اثر كبير في نفوس كل العراقيين في المدينة​

    Hi! I do'no know if this helps you, but this sentence is refered to 'Ali, since he never worshiped any idol: لم يسجد لصنم , and that's why his face is 'honored'.

    cherine said:
    Little note: "Karrama Allahu Wajhahu" is a fixed expression that is used, to my knowledge, only with Imam Aly.
    Yes Chirene, as far as I know, the Imam 'Ali is the only one who is refered to as "Karramma Allahu wajhahu"
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    cherine said:
    first, the simple addition of Elroy, proves what I say. (grammatically speaking)
    I can understand the argument from Islam about the unacceptability of the sentence, but what do you mean by the above?
     

    NICE-LADY

    Member
    ARABIC
    cherine said:
    Sorry guys, but I still believe that this sentence, as is, is not possible :
    first, the simple addition of Elroy, proves what I say. (grammatically speaking)
    second, in what concerns the meaning itself : it IS impossible; you don't honor God.
    Chirene, I thibk the sentence is completely acceptable in terms of grammar, but in terms of meaning, you are are right: we glorify God, but not honor him.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I mean that with the "t" you added to the verb "karrama" the sentence would be grammatically incorrect :
    الزيارة كرمت for we can't say الزيارة كرم . you may consider this as a typo, but as it's not a typo, this would help us know (or guess) that there's something missing in the sentence.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    cherine said:
    I mean that with the "t" you added to the verb "karrama" the sentence would be grammatically incorrect :
    الزيارة كرمت for we can't say الزيارة كرم . you may consider this as a typo, but as it's not a typo, this would help us know (or guess) that there's something missing in the sentence.
    Yes, you are right, but I thought we were talking about دعاءه كرم الله. :)
     
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