لن يذهب

Qureshpor

Senior Member
Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
Once again, لن يذهب is given the meaning as:

"He will never go" in the Urdu Arabic grammar book instead of the normal, "He will not go". Is this a stronger form of the negative future when لا يذهب could mean the unemphatic "He will not go"?
 
  • clevermizo

    Senior Member
    English (USA), Spanish
    In modern usage, لن يذهب means "He will not go." To say he will never go, you would say something like لن يذهب أبدًا. I can't speak for any differences in usage Classically.

    لا يذهب means "He doesn't go/isn't going." It could have implied future depending on context.
     

    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    Once again, لن يذهب is given the meaning as:

    "He will never go" in the Urdu Arabic grammar book instead of the normal, "He will not go".
    I agree with this analysis; it can very well mean 'never' if one doesn't specify a time-frame and ends it there.
    But the same goes for english 'he will not go' as well!
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    I would have to disagree with you mizo, لن يذهب implies something final - he will never go, or he will not go, ever; the أبدًا part is just an added توكيد. I think it's basically the same in Classical usage.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    So, is there a verifiable difference between سوف لا يذهب and لن يذهب?
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    I believe the point is that لن is a strong negating particle of future action (perhaps stronger than the English "will").

    However, I think we need to clarify that it is often time-frame dependent, as Iskandaraani alluded to. That is, it is a strong negation of future action within the time-frame indicated.

    If no time frame given, we might say لن يذهب (in isolation) could mean "he will never go (for all time). But if a time frame is given then the strong negation is relevant for that time frame only. For example:

    لن يذهب اليوم، وإنما سيذهب غدا.ـ
    (He will not go today, but (he) will go tomorrow.)

    That is, within the confines of today, he will certainly not go/never go/not go ever, but tomorrow he will go.
    The former is incorrect I think
    Both ways are acceptable, but the former is uncommon.
     

    Kinan

    Senior Member
    Arabic
    لن يذهب doesn't necessarily mean he won't go ever.
    Both لن يذهب and لا يذهب need continuation or at least you need to know the question.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I don't see why لن indicate "never". Isn't it just the negation of/in the future? To indicate "never" we need to add أبدًا or another word that gives this meaning.

    I don't think سوف لا يذهب is a correct usage, at least not a common one.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^If it is incorrect, then it seems strange that grammar books (MSA) should include this option!

    One of our friends in this thread has, I think, hit the nail on the head. لن يذهب may not mean "He will never go" but لن perhaps imparts a more emphatic negative sense than لا يذهب or سوف لا يذهب. One must not forget that a مضارع does have a present/future sense and لا is the particle which traditionally negates present/future whereas ما negated the present only. At least this is what I have been led to believe.
     

    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    الجيش المصري لم ولن يطلق النار على المتظاهرين
    Here it means never - but this is equally implied by the English:
    'The Egyptian Army has not fired on protesters and will not do so.'
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Hi,

    If I say لن أذهب للحفل does this mean "I will never go to the party"? I would not think that. It's a simple "I'm not going" or "I will not go". The "never" meaning needs to be implied from context, as in the example given by Iskandarany. But I would never say لن أقول أبداً that "lan" in itself has the meaning of أبدًا . :)
     

    إسكندراني

    Senior Member
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    If you say
    لن أذهب لحفل
    it could very well mean never.
    I suppose what I was saying about a similarity with English is what you just clarified; even in English some sentences hold the meaning 'never' just because of the context which they give 'will not'.
     

    rayloom

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Hijazi Arabic)
    For lan to surely mean never, it has to be followed by أبدا. Otherwise, it depends on the timeframe intended and the context.

    And combining sawfa and negation in the same sentence is incorrect, even though you can see it from time to time in poetry (for metric reasons), but poetry is another matter.

    Even if you want to use لا laa, you don't use it with sawfa, and if you want it to mean never, you add أبدا.
    ولا يتمنونه أبدا بما قدمت أيديهم
    62:7

    (cf. with ولن يتمنوه أبدا بما قدمت أيديهم 2:95)
     

    L-art-a

    New Member
    Arabic
    the Arabic is a very specific Language,
    the sentence لن يذهب simply means : (he) will not go, word for word ( future form)
    لا يذهب means : he is not going now ( present form)
    لم يذهب means : he did not go ( past form, but using the present tens verb)
    in Arabic grammar, these three حروف (letters=لم,لا,لن )are used in exercises to practice the tenses, and they are what we call حروف نافية
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Perhaps you ought to qualify your statement. Arabic might have been more precise in the olden days but perhaps not anymore.

    لا يذهب does not always mean : he is not going now ( present form)

    إن الذين يكتمون ما أنزل الله من الكتاب ويشترون به ثمنا قليلا أولئك ما يأكلون في بطونهم إلا النار ولا يكلمهم الله يوم القيامة

    Those who conceal what God has revealed of the book and sell it for a small price, they are only putting fire in their bellies and God will not speak to them on the Day of Judgement.
     

    Mazhara

    Senior Member
    Urdu, English
    The Ayah, perhaps, does not negate what is suggested earlier. "God will not speak" is because of following [مفعول فيه منصوب]
     

    L-art-a

    New Member
    Arabic
    Although Arabic IS a very specific language, BUT it lakes the TENSES that the English has, we can use the Present Form, of a verb to say something about the Future, the past or the present:
    as quoted earlier
    the sentence لن يذهب simply means : (he) will not go, word for word ( future form)
    لا يذهب means : he is not going now ( present form)
    لم يذهب means : he did not go ( past form, but using the present tens verb)
    this extends to all verbs. the differentiation always comes from the whole context of the sentence..
    What I wanted to say earlier was as IS,
    - لن preceding a verb makes the context in the future
    - لم preceding a verb makes the context in the past
    - لا preceding a verb makes the context in the present

    unless followed by other words , example:
    سوف يصبح طبيباً ما لم يصبح مهندساً, where ما brings the whole sentence to the future form when used ahead of لم .

    This can go on forever!!
     

    aurelien.demarest

    Senior Member
    French
    Good morning guys,

    I am studying الشرط and جوابه and I'm having confusion with لن.
    If I am not mistaken, after لن in most cases when لن is نفية the following verb is مضارع منصوب as this sentence:
    المعلمُ لن يُقْبَلَ أيَّ عُذْرِ بعدَ الآن

    My question is what about النهي ? Is it possible to give an imperative in the future with لن ?
    Like: !لن تدْخُلْ الصف متأخرًا

    I am asking this because with الشرط and جوابه which should be مجزوم that is driving me crazy...
    Example:
    مَهْمَا يَكُنْ العُذْرُ فلن تدْخُلْ الصف متأخرًا
    Whatever the excuse is you will not enter late into the classroom
    or
    مَهْمَا يَكُنْ العُذْرُ فلن تدْخُلَ الصف متأخرًا
    Whatever the excuse is you will not enter late into the classroom

    Thank you in advance
    Aurélien
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Bonjour Aurélien,

    I'm a bit confused here (and too lazy to check my grammar book) so could you please clarify where you got the idea that لن can be used for النهي?
    As far as I know, it's only used for النفي للمستقبل and is always followed by a verb in النصب .
     

    aurelien.demarest

    Senior Member
    French
    مرحبا يا شيرين

    I didn't get that sentence from any source actually :p. I did it by myself so to illustrate an example of لن with النهي in order to ask the community whether this strucutre is possible in Arabic.
    In other words whether it is possible to have an imperative order in the future (with لن) in a conditional response (جواب الشرط) where the verb conjugation is not منصوب but مجزوم because of النهي
    This is existing is latin for instance: Ne falsum dixeritis! (you won't say false things!)

    Aurélien
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Thanks for the clarification.
    In this case, I'd say that this is not possible in Arabic. لن is نافية not ناهية.
    The part with لن تدخل as a جواب شرط, the phrase as a whole is a جواب شرط. If you haven't studied this yet, you don't need to worry about it now. But if you have, then you should remember that a جملة can take the place of a noun, so to speak, which is the case with the sentence you mentioned.
    مَهْمَا يَكُنْ العُذْرُ فلن تدْخُلَ الصف متأخرًا
     

    Tarkin

    Banned
    English - United States
    I remember that there is a difference of opinion regarding لن:

    1. Some say it simply negates the future
    2. Others say it negates the future for all time
    3. Yet others say it negates the future with emphasis

    The first would be translated "will not", the second "never", and the third "certainly/definitely will not".

    I think we can safely rule the second possibility out. The reason is that the Qur'an tells us that the Virgin Mary said, ""فلن أكلم اليوم إنسيا", and it would make no sense for her to say "I will never talk to a human being today." The word "today" makes no sense when talking about eternity.

    Another reason is that the Qur'an says, "قُلْ إِن كَانَتْ لَكُمُ الدَّارُ الْآخِرَةُ عِندَ اللَّهِ خَالِصَةً مِّن دُونِ النَّاسِ فَتَمَنَّوُا الْمَوْتَ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ وَلَن يَتَمَنَّوْهُ أَبَدًا بِمَا قَدَّمَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ بِالظَّالِمِينَ". The word أبدًا already means "never", and would be superfluous if لن meant the same thing.

    A third reason is that the Qur'an says, "وَلَمَّا جَاءَ مُوسَىٰ لِمِيقَاتِنَا وَكَلَّمَهُ رَبُّهُ قَالَ رَبِّ أَرِنِي أَنظُرْ إِلَيْكَ ۚ قَالَ لَن تَرَانِي وَلَٰكِنِ انظُرْ إِلَى الْجَبَلِ فَإِنِ اسْتَقَرَّ مَكَانَهُ فَسَوْفَ تَرَانِي ۚ فَلَمَّا تَجَلَّىٰ رَبُّهُ لِلْجَبَلِ جَعَلَهُ دَكًّا وَخَرَّ مُوسَىٰ صَعِقًا ۚ فَلَمَّا أَفَاقَ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ تُبْتُ إِلَيْكَ وَأَنَا أَوَّلُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ". If لن meant "never", it would imply that Moses would never see God, even though there are other verses and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad that indicate that certain blessed individuals will be allowed to gaze upon Allah someday.
     
    Last edited:

    mrs. miyagi

    Banned
    english-USA
    I don’t know about Classical Arabic, but in Modern Standard Arabic لن is used simply to negate the future, i.e. "will not“. There is no تأكيد or تأبيد in it.
     
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