لوددت

lena55313

Senior Member
Russian-Russia
بل هي الأولى.. (ثم بعد قليل) لوددت أني ما جئت
Hi, can you please explain what the ل means here.
My guess:
1. It could be the ْلَو i.e. ُلَوَّدَدْت connected with the verb وددت I wish I would not come. But is it ever possible to dubble the و?
2. Or the لَ correlative of the omitted لَوْ For example, he thought something and didn't say it out. لو if something happened ُلَوَدَدْت I would want to not to come
3. Or maybe it is a لِ the "because of" - because I wish I didn't come. But is it possible for the لِ to be connected with verbs?
 
  • normordm

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Sudanese
    I would translate ُلَوَدَدْت to "I would have (then) wanted". Although that doesn't really fit here. Could you give some more context?

    I did a quick google search and found a couple of sentences:
    لو كانت هناك حياةٌ أخرى، لوددتُ أن أكون شجرة
    أقف إلى الأبد، بهيئةٍ غيرِ حزينةٍ ولا مبتهجة


    لو كان هناك خطأ بأحد كتبي لوددت أن أعرف
     
    Last edited:

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    Hi, Normordm. It's a long and a little bit strange dialogue from the book I'm reading. One man told the boy that his name was Ahmad the Dead. The boy was surprised and asked:
    – ولكن ألا تحدثني كيف حييت مرة أخرى؟ أو من الذي ردك إلى الحياة؟

    – لم يردني إلى الحياة أحد. لقد مت وانتهى الأمر.

    فحملق الفتى في وجهه وهو مبهوت وكف عن الكلام، وقد دار في نفسه خاطر لم يرتح معه إلى صحبة هذا الرفيق.

    وبعد قليل قال أحمد الميت: ليست هذه أول مرة جئتنا فيها؟

    – بل هي الأولى.. (ثم بعد قليل) لوددت أني ما جئت!

    وسكتا برهة ثم عاد القروي يصل ما انقطع: لقد حسبتك عرفت الدار من طول تحديقك إلى ناحيتها.

    I would translate لَوَّدَدْت to "I would have (then) wanted
    You mean that لَوَّدَدْت is لو+وددت ? Is it possible to connect them in this way?
     
    Last edited:

    normordm

    Senior Member
    Arabic - Sudanese
    You mean that لَوَّدَدْت is لو+وددت ? Is it possible to connect them in this way?
    My bad. I meant to say لَوَدَدْت but I just copied it from your post. I edited it now. I'm pretty sure it's not لو+وددت but ل+وددت. Although I don't know the name of this لام (I'm just a speaker, I don't know much about the grammar stuff). It seems to me to mean some thing like "would have". It's mostly used after لو though so I'm kind of confused by this example. Maybe it's just used to start a sentence here.
     

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    Thank you, Normordm. Let's wait. Maybe somebody will give us a clue)))
    By the way I got one more question after you'd given your examples. Look, in your sentence its لوددتُ أن أكون i.e وددتُ+أنْ exactly like in the dictionary = to want/to wish that something be.
    But in mine it's لوددت أني , and here it is probably not the أنْ but the أَنِّي i.e. أَنَّ+ي
    And I don't know how it could be.:eek:
    I kindly ask moderators not to cut my thread. I think question concerns the whole construction لوددت أني ما جئت .
     

    Ghabi

    AL/OL/Ar/Zh mod
    Cantonese
    It's some kind of oath. You may find more examples if you search for والله لوددت. It's like saying "By God I wished I had not come!" (وددت is pronounced wadidtu, not wadadtu.)
     
    – بل هي الأولى.. (ثم بعد قليل) لوددت أني ما جئت!
    I feel something is missing in this sentence, لوددت أني ما جئت is جواب الشرط , but where is جملة الشرط and اداة الشرط (لو)؟
    The لام is لام التسويف as you named it "the لَ correlative of the omitted لَوْ "...but لو shouldn't be omitted in the first place alongside with its جملة الشرط unless there is قرينة by which we may guess جملة الشرط from the context...
    for ex; هي لم تتح لها الفرصة للدراسة والتعلم , وإلا لكانت اليوم من المتفوقين
    The assumption is: لو انها اتيحت لها الفرصة للدراسة والتعلم, لكانت اليوم من المتفوقين
    .......
    Or were he mentally saying it to himself during that( بعد قليل) moment before resuming his uttered speech?
     

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    وددت is pronounced wadidtu, not wadadtu
    Thank you for correcting me. In the almaany they give two variants وَدِدْتُ / وَدَدْتُ Does the usage depend on something or just the وَدِدْتُ is more common?
     

    Ghabi

    AL/OL/Ar/Zh mod
    Cantonese
    That's just the way I learned the word. If you hear people pronounce it another way, then of course you can use that pronunciation. The pronunciations of many words in fuS7a have changed and have variations, apparently, just as in any other language.
     

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    Or were he mentally saying it to himself during that( بعد قليل) moment before resuming his uttered speech?
    It's a mistery to me.))) But I think Ghabi was close to the truth when he said that it was like oath, like cry of heart. "I wish I'd never come!"

    Ghabi, I found a lots of لَوَدِدْتُ أَنِّي in Internet by the request you gave, but I still can't understand how it works. Is it أنَّ ? I did't find in dictionaries that it could be the أنَّ after the وَدِدْتُ - only the أنْ .
     

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    If you hear people pronounce it another way
    I've never heard. And I've just read in the LL that some grammarians considered وَدَدْتُ incorrect.
    Thank you for correcting me, because I'd started to memorize the verb and could get it wrong.
     

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    Why do you think it's incorrect with أنّ ?
    My thoughts:
    1. The Wehr dictionary gives the translation - to want, wish (ه smth, ان or لو or او ان that smth be) - and the example اود ان يفعل ذلك It's the subjunctive, isn't it? I was told here at the forum that the difference between أنْ and أنَّ is that أنَّ is used before the noun and أنْ is used before the verb. That is why I thought that in the Wehr's example it was the أنْ
    2. In the almaany they give the example with the لو - it is : وَدِدْتُ لَوْ أَقْضِي الصَّيْفَ فِي الْجَبَلِ and here also the verb is put after the لَوْ
    I've never found in any dictionary that the verb ود could be used with the أنَّ All the examples are given with the subjunctive.
    Really I don't think it is incorrect, I just want to find this structure in the grammar book and I haven't found it yet.
     
    Last edited:

    sun_shine 331995

    Senior Member
    Arabic (Egypt)
    أنْ + الفعل = مصدر مؤول
    أنّ + اسمها + خبرها in some cases is مصدر مؤول
    أنّ واسمها وخبرها here is مصدر مؤول
    the difference between أنْ and أنَّ is that أنَّ is used before the noun and أنْ is used before the verb.
    Yes, and أنّ here is before a noun.
    أنّي the ي is a pronoun اسم أنّ
     

    lena55313

    Senior Member
    Russian-Russia
    Yes, and أنّ here is before a noun.
    Yes, it is. But why after the verb of inclination it comes أنَّ instead of أنْ ?
    There we have two sentences. Both of them mean the wish. The difference is that the first one tells us about what we want to happen with us in future (of course hypothetically), but the second one tells us about our regret for something happened in the past.
    1. لو كانت هناك حياةٌ أخرى، لوددتُ أن أكون شجرة he (who speaks) wanted to be a tree
    2. لوددت أني ما جئت he wanted that he had never come.
    The structure 1 is widely discribed in grammar books, but I've never read about the structure 2, considering that the verb وددت in both cases is a verb of inclination. But in the 2 case the verb acts like a verb which doesn't have the meaning of inclination. But it has.
    That is why I'm confused.
    Maybe the أنَّ can come after all verbs?
     
    Last edited:
    < Previous | Next >
    Top