مصطفى النجار مندوب الأهرام

eac

Senior Member
USA, English
How to translate this phrase? It looks like the apposition of two idafa phrases, both referring to one person so maybe something like, "a representative of the group (and) a trustee of the pyramids." ها هي الجملة بكمالها:



وقد صرح الدكتر توفيق لمصطفى النجار مندوب الأهرام بأن هذا الكشف يعد إضافة هامة للتريخ المصري القديم.​
 
  • elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    eac said:


    وقد صرح الدكتر توفيق لمصطفى النجار مندوب الأهرام بأن هذا الكشف يعد إضافة هامة للتاريخ المصري القديم.​
    Doctor Tawfiiq has declared to Mustafa An-Najaar (or Mustafa the carpenter), the Al-Ahraam representative, that this discovery is considered an important addition to ancient Egyptian history.

    I understand الأهرام here as the name of the newspaper.
     

    eac

    Senior Member
    USA, English
    I should have known it was a proper name! Any tips for recognizing names, given that Arabic has no capital letters?
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Err...not really; all I can say is context. If I just saw الأهرام on its own, there would be no way to tell.

    In this case, the little context that I had led me to suspect that it was referring to the newspaper. Notice, however, that I provided both the common-noun and the proper-noun definitions of النجار - although I find the proper-noun one far more likely (how many carpenters are also journalists?).
     

    ayed

    Senior Member
    Arabic(Saudi)
    eac said:
    How to translate this phrase? It looks like the apposition of two idafa phrases, both referring to one person so maybe something like, "a representative of the group (and) a trustee of the pyramids." ها هي الجملة بكمالها:



    وقد صرح الدكتر توفيق لمصطفى النجار ، مندوب الأهرام ، بأن هذا الكشف يعد إضافة هامة للتريخ المصري القديم.​
    The proper noun better be followed by a come(المبدل منه) and its apposition(البدل)followed by one as well.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    You're right Ayed, but you know that journal writing doesn't abide by many rules, thus creating many confusions.

    As for eac, I can suggest -to distinguish the proper nouns- to read the context.
    In this sentence, for example, we have the words صَرّح and مندوب الأهرام (as long as you know that it's the Egyptian newspaper) these two words are mainly used in this context (journalism reporting).
    Another hint : mainly the titles as النجار، الحداد، العطار ... if they're surnames لقب they follow the names الاسم, like this one, but if they're profession مهنة they come first.

    Hope this helps a bit.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    ayed said:
    The proper noun better be followed by a come(المبدل منه) and its apposition(البدل)followed by one as well.
    Hm...that by itself doesn't help us konw that الأهرام here is the name of a newspaper and does not mean "pyramids." You placed commas around the whole phrase "مندوب الأهرام," which consists of a common noun and a proper noun (that could theoretically be a common noun) in the "genitive" case.

    I don't see how the commas would help one determine whether the second word is a common noun or a proper noun.
     
    < Previous | Next >
    Top