مع

Ali Smith

Senior Member
Urdu - Pakistan
مرحبًا

I know مع is almost always used as a مفعول فيه (also known as ظرف مكان). Could someone give me an example where it is not منصوب?

Thanks!
 
  • Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    Wright does record one example:
    1596430206305.png

    vol. ii, sect. 57, p. 165
     

    Mahaodeh

    Senior Member
    Arabic, PA and IA.
    I’m not sure about that, مِن معه doesn’t seem to make sense to me in terms of meaning. You just don’t say “from with”, it’s either “from” or “with”. I suppose he just copied من فوقه ومن أمامه ومن غده ومن عنده and just assumed it to be correct. However, personally I think that if the meaning doesn’t work then the expression can’t be correct, could it?

    Some linguists say that مع is actually حرف جر مبني على الفتح ويجوز تسكينه based in the dialects of some tribes such as بني تميم. Most say that it’s never حرف جر and is معربة but it’s always one of three: ظرف مكان أو ظرف زمان أو حال and hence would never be anything other than منصوبة. The تسكين is only possible at the end of a sentence.

    As such, I don’t think it’s possible to find it without فتحة or تنوين الفتح or at the best case سكون.
     

    Abu Talha

    Senior Member
    Urdu
    I’m not sure about that, مِن معه doesn’t seem to make sense to me in terms of meaning. You just don’t say “from with”, it’s either “from” or “with”. I suppose he just copied من فوقه ومن أمامه ومن غده ومن عنده and just assumed it to be correct. However, personally I think that if the meaning doesn’t work then the expression can’t be correct, could it?
    If مع as a noun means "being in the company of" then ذهبت مِن معِه can correctly mean "I went from being in his company". I don't think the meaning is particularly incorrect. Of course, the usage is rare to the point to it being an exceptional recording. But if the Arabs have said it then it is Arabic, won't you agree?
     

    Hemza

    Senior Member
    French, Mor/Hijz Arabic (heritage)
    I’m not sure about that, مِن معه doesn’t seem to make sense to me in terms of meaning. You just don’t say “from with”, it’s either “from” or “with”. I suppose he just copied من فوقه ومن أمامه ومن غده ومن عنده and just assumed it to be correct. However, personally I think that if the meaning doesn’t work then the expression can’t be correct, could it?
    What من غده means? I remained ten good minutes wondering what could be its meaning :D. Is it referring to something coming later? الشيخ قوقل wasn't helpful.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    If مع as a noun means "being in the company of" then ذهبت مِن معِه can correctly mean "I went from being in his company". I don't think the meaning is particularly incorrect. Of course, the usage is rare to the point to it being an exceptional recording. But if the Arabs have said it then it is Arabic, won't you agree?
    If سيبويه recorded it, then it was defintely used, even if by a minority and yes it's Arabic.
    But I'd also say that it's not used in modern fuS7a and that it wouldn't be understood by many (if not most) Arabic speakers.
    What من غده means?
    "du lendemain", starting from the next day.
     

    sinan gul

    Banned
    Urdu
    I always thought that ma3a was a harf jarr. I am shocked to find out that it is not. How can you consider bi a harf jarr but not ma3a? I think it makes more sense to say that جلست مع الاستاذ has a harf jarr in it because otherwise how can you explain that الاستاذ is majrour?
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Salut,
    I always thought that ma3a was a harf jarr.
    Some say that مع is a noun because it has certain characteristics of the noun : it can have a tanwiin and it can be preceded by a preposition.

    I think it makes more sense to say that جلست مع الاستاذ has a harf jarr in it because otherwise how can you explain that الاستاذ is majrour?
    In this case the word الاستاذ is majruur because it is the second term of an annexation and مع is mansuub because it is a ظرف...

    It has the same analysis as the words: ...أمام ، خلف ، بعد ، قبل

    If مع as a noun means "being in the company of" then ذهبت مِن معِه can correctly mean "I went from being in his company".
    Maybe in this case مع has the meaning of عند ? I say this because I saw this:


    الثالث : بمعنى عند
    في { هذا ذكرٌ مِن معي } أي من عندي
    وحكاية سيبويه ( ذهبت من معه )
    أي من عنده



    EDIT :
    مع 3: اسم وتستعمل مضافة، فتكون ظرفا ولها حينئذ ثلاثة معان:أحدها:
    موضع الاجتماع، نحو: أنا معك.
    الثاني: زمانه، نحو: حئت مع العصر.
    الثالث: بمعنى عند وحكى سيبويه4: ذهبت من معه، أي من عنده.
    وتستعمل غير مضافة فتنون حالا، وقد تكون ظرفا، وتستعمل للجماعة كما تستعمل للاثنين.


    Source : ص118 - مختصر مغني اللبيب عن كتاب الأعاريب - حرف الميم - المكتبة الشاملة الحديثة
     
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