من بعد ما

U

uas60

Senior Member
English; Urdu; Student of Arabic/French
Hi and peace to all!

OK so I'm going through a poem and trying to translate for my practice but come across a fiddly point. This is the verse of the poem:

فكيف إجابتي من بعد ما فرطت في ديني


Do you feel a difference between: من بعد ما فرطت في ديني
and if it was:
من بعد فرطت في ديني
Does the maa affect the translation? Does the second one make sense or does it sound strange without the "maa"?

I know there are loads of different types of maa but in this context... what do you think? (If it is an amateurish question, please bear with me!)
 
    • it can't be without ما
    when one say the sentence without it, it feels weird
    i don't remember the reason
    i'll ask then tell you
     
    uas60 said:
    Hi and peace to all!

    OK so I'm going through a poem and trying to translate for my practice but come across a fiddly point. This is the verse of the poem:

    فكيف إجابتي من بعد ما فرطت في ديني


    Do you feel a difference between: من بعد ما فرطت في ديني
    and if it was:
    من بعد فرطت في ديني
    Does the maa affect the translation? Does the second one make sense or does it sound strange without the "maa"?

    I know there are loads of different types of maa but in this context... what do you think? (If it is an amateurish question, please bear with me!)
    Click to expand...

    Does this ما mean the relative what?
     
    Hi,

    This is ما المصدرية that works like أنْ+الفعل , you can replace ماwith "an": من بعد أن فَرَّطْتُ and in both cases it would mean من بعد تفريطي .

    Here's a similar example from the Qur'an:
    In the verse 109 from the second surat سورة البقرة , there's the sentence من بعد ما تبيَّن لهم أنه الحق , and الحلبي gives this i3raab:

    قوله: "مِّن بَعْدِ مَا" متعلِّقٌ بـ"وَدَّ"، و "مِنْ" للابتداءِ، أي إنَّ ودَادَتَهم ذلك ابتدأتْ من حينِ وضوحِ الحقِّ وتبيُّنِه لهم، فكفرُهم عنادٌ، و "ما" مصدريةٌ أي: مِنْ بعدِ تبيُّنِ الحقِّ. ​

    Source.
     
    cherine said:
    Hi,

    This is ما المصدرية that works like أنْ+الفعل , you can replace ماwith "an": من بعد أن فَرَّطْتُ and in both cases it would mean من بعد تفريطي .

    Here's a similar example from the Qur'an:
    In the verse 109 from the second surat سورة البقرة , there's the sentence من بعد ما تبيَّن لهم أنه الحق , and الحلبي gives this i3raab:

    قوله: "مِّن بَعْدِ مَا" متعلِّقٌ بـ"وَدَّ"، و "مِنْ" للابتداءِ، أي إنَّ ودَادَتَهم ذلك ابتدأتْ من حينِ وضوحِ الحقِّ وتبيُّنِه لهم، فكفرُهم عنادٌ، و "ما" مصدريةٌ أي: مِنْ بعدِ تبيُّنِ الحقِّ. ​

    Source.
    Click to expand...

    Ah that clears a lot of things up! Thank you very much!

    So in simple terms - it's just grammatically necessary right? There is no "subtle difference" without the maa masdariyya because it has to be there.
     
    Can the من be omitted from من بعد ما without changing the meaning? E.g. الحمد لله أحيانا بعد ما أماتنا وإليه النشور
     
    Actually it does have a meaning. It’s subtle and barely affects the overall meaning but there is a difference between بعد and من بعد.

    من here is for ابتداء الغاية, in the إعراب quoted by cherine he clearly states:
    cherine said:
    "مِنْ" للابتداءِ، أي إنَّ ودَادَتَهم ذلك ابتدأتْ من حينِ وضوحِ الحقِّ وتبيُّنِه لهم
    Click to expand...

    So the difference between بعد and من بعد is that the former says “after”, and it could be at any point after, whereas من بعد specifies the point at which it started, that is, immediately after.

    For example, if I say سأبدأ العمل بعد صلاة العصر, and then I don’t start until midnight, I didn’t break my promise as midnight is indeed after صلاة العصر, but If I said سأبدأ من بعد صلاة العصر then you would expect me to start working 15 or 20 minutes after the آذان at the most.
     
    Last edited:
    Which one?

    In any case in all the examples above it’s ما المصدرية. Just replace it with the مصدر and you’ll see it works:
    من بعد تفريطي
    من بعد تبيّن الحق
    بعد إماتتنا

    By the way, I think the duaa is missing a relative pronoun: الحمد لله الذي أحيانا.
     
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