موقع عربي جديد في شبكة الانترنت

Whodunit

Senior Member
Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
Introduction:


جولة في موقع
!..بوابة السودان الإلكترونية



:من سلطان العنزي
موقع عربي جديد في شبكة الانترنت، أعلن افتتاحه في بداية شهر١١/٢٠٠٠، والذي يأتي معبرا عن السودان وأهله، يهدف الموقع الى خدمة المغتربين السودانيين بدول المهجر عامة والخليج جصوصاً، قام بإعداد الموقع مجموعة من السودانيين العاملين بالمملكة العربية السعودية


I'm trying to translate an article about the "بوابة السودان الإلكترونية" and this is the first paragraph. First, I want to transcribe it and then I have prepared two translations: The first one is nearly literal, so that you can see which mistakes I've made, and the second one should be in better English. I'd like you to correct everything I'm typing here.





Transcription and translation:




Jaulatun fii mauqi3in
Bawwaabatu 's-suudaani 'l-2iliktruuniyyatu ...!



Mawqi3un 3arabiiyun jadiidun fii shabakati 'l-interneti, 2a3lana iftitaa7uhu fii bidaajatin shahri 2a7ada 3ashar 2alfaani, w-alladhii yaataa ma3baran min as-suudaani wa-2ahlihi, yadhafa al-mawqi3u 2ilaa khidmati al-mughtaribiin as-suudaaniiiin bi-duwali 'l-mahjari 3aammatan w-al-khaliiji khuSuuSan qaama bi-2i3daadin al-mawqi3un majmuu3atin min as-suudaaniiiin al-3aamiliin bi-al-mamlakati 'l-3arabiyyati 's-su3uudiyyati.​


Almost literally:


Trip to a place
The electronic gate of the Sudan


A new Arabic place in the Internet announced its opening in the beginning of the month 11/2000, which brings an entrance to the Sudan and its inhabitants. The place aims at the service of the Sudaneses living abroad with the emigration countries in general and especially with the Gulf. The place was made with a drawing up of a group of Sudaneses working with Saudi-Arabia.

A little better:


Trip to a place
The Electronic Sudan Gate


Early in month 11/2000, a new Arabic place in the Internet, which offers an insight into the life of the Sudan and its inhabitants, announced its opening. It is in general directed to the service with the emigration countries and especially, with the Gulf of the Sudaneses living abroad. The place was made with a drawing up by a group of Sudaneses working with Saudi-Arabia.​

Questions:
  • Isn't شبكة الانترنت redundant? In my opinion, that means "the net of the Internet". I'm interested in if there are even more of such redundant words.​
  • أعلن follows the subject and the the adverbial expression, which isn't the real Arabic structure: P-S-O (predicate, subject, object). Is it just an exception, special kind of language, wrong, normal?​
  • "... بداية شهر" means "the beginning of a month ...", although I don't like to translate it like this. Is it possible to leave out "الـ" here or would it wrong, if I put it before شهر?​
  • Is it normal that there are so many commas instead of periods when a part of a clause ends?​
  • I'm not sure if I can translate "أهله" with "its inhabitants", because I'd say "its relatives". Is it okay to use the plural to translate into English here?​
  • I'm curious if you like my transcription of "as-suudaaniiiin" with four I's. Would you transcribe it similarly?​
  • How can I best translate دول الهجر? I'm not satisfied with "emigration countries" at all. Any suggestions?​
  • Is عامة a noun or adverb here? I struggled with that word, because "folk" doesn't make much sense here.​
  • Is my translation of "... قام بإعداد الموقع" correct? I thought قام and الموقع belong together, but I am not sure at all.​
Thank you for correcting my work and answering the questions. :)






 
  • elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I have merged your posts. As far as I can see, there are no major formatting problems.

    I will tackle your questions when I'm a little less overwhelmed. :)
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Hi, I'm adding my words, answers, corrections in blue. The post was to big, so i'll divide it into two posts.

    Whodunit said:
    Transcription and translation:

    Jaulatun fii mauqi3in

    Bawwaabatu 's-suudaani 'l-2iliktruuniyyatu ...!
    Mawqi3un 3arabiiyun jadiidun fii shabakati 'l-interneti, 2u3lina iftitaa7uhu fii bidaajatin (bidaayati) shahri 2a7ada 3ashar 2alfaani, (Usually, in formal speach, we say : shahri sibtamber min 3aam 2alfayni) w-alladhii ya2tiimu3abbiran (expressing, speaking of...) (ma3baran means passage way) min 3an as-suudaani wa-2ahlihi, yadhifu al-mawqi3u 2ilaa khidmati al-mughtaribiin as-suudaaniiiin (suudaaniyyiin) bi-duwali 'l-mahjari 3aammatan w-al-khaliiji khuSuuSan qaama bi-2i3daadin al-mawqi3i majmuu3atun min as-suudaaniyyiin al-3aamiliin bi-al-mamlakati 'l-3arabiyyati 's-su3uudiyyati.

    Almost literally:
    Trip to a place (site)
    The electronic gate of the Sudan
    A new Arabic place in the Internet announced its opening in the beginning of the month 11/2000, which brings an entrance to the Sudan and its inhabitants. The place aims at the service of the Sudaneses living abroad within the emigration countries in general and especially in the Gulf. The place was made with a drawing up of a group of Sudaneses working with Saudi-Arabia.

    A little better:

    Trip to a place (Visit to a site)
    The Electronic Sudan Gate
    Early in month 11/2000, a new Arabic place (site) in (on?) the Internet, which offers an insight into the life of the Sudan and its inhabitants (people?), announced its opening. It is in general directed to (serving the Sudanese imigrants, specially those in the Gulf countries) the service with the emigration countries and especially, with the Gulf of the Sudaneses living abroad. The place was made with a drawing up by a group of Sudaneses working with Saudi-Arabia. (The site was designed/prepared by a group of Sudanese living in Saudi Arabia)
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Whodunit said:
    Questions:
    · Isn't شبكة الانترنت redundant? In my opinion, that means "the net of the Internet". I'm interested in if there are even more of such redundant words. There are many redundancies in Arabic, but the word Internet الإنترنت is usually used to avoid this.
    · أعلن follows the subject and the the adverbial expression, which isn't the real Arabic structure: P-S-O (predicate, subject, object). Is it just an exception, special kind of language, wrong, normal? I hope the changes I've made in your transliteration made it clear : it's u3lina (passive voice)
    · "... بداية شهر" means "the beginning of a month ...", although I don't like to translate it like this. Is it possible to leave out "الـ" here or would it wrong, if I put it before شهر? It's : bedayat shahr 11, which i tried to correct as : bedayat shahr sibtamber; i.e. the begining of the month of September, of the year 2000.
    · Is it normal that there are so many commas instead of periods when a part of a clause ends? Another common problem with written texts : Most people/writers don't give enough attention to punctuation. Personally, when I translate such texts, I add the punctuation marks, or else the text won't be understoo.
    · I'm not sure if I can translate "أهله" with "its inhabitants", because I'd say "its relatives". Is it okay to use the plural to translate into English here? The word ahl can mean : family, relative, but also : inhabitants : like ahl al-balad (people, inhabitants of the country).
    · I'm curious if you like my transcription of "as-suudaaniiiin" with four I's. Would you transcribe it similarly? I added the y to mark the proper pronunciation of the yaa2, otherwise it looke like a loooong i :)
    · How can I best translate دول المهجر? I'm not satisfied with "emigration countries" at all. Any suggestions? It means : the countries receiving immigrants. I think You can give the English word better than I :)
    · Is عامة a noun or adverb here? I struggled with that word, because "folk" doesn't make much sense here. it's an adverb, meaning (in general) and not al-3aama (folks).
    · Is my translation of "... قام بإعداد الموقع" correct? I thought قام and الموقع belong together, but I am not sure at all. it's qaama bi-i3daad that comes together. It's sort of a different way of giving the past tense of a3adda أَعَـدَّ (prepared). The word al-mawqi3i is the object (in the sense, but here it's inflicted as مُضاف إليه)


    As for Sultan al-3anzi, again :), the link you sent was very useful : it's a reporter's name. As the page you sent is an article, I could finally make sure about that. I was already sure it's a man's name, but here the context makes it much clearer : it's the reporter. You'll find similar expression in other new articles : min...
    Hope i was of help :)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Comments on/Additions to Cherine's remarks:

    Jaulatun fii mauqi3in


    Bawwaabatu 's-suudaani 'l-2iliktruuniyyatu ...!
    Mawqi3un 3arabiiyun jadiidun fii shabakati 'l-interneti, 2u3lina iftitaa7uhu fii bidaajatin (bidaayati) shahri 2a7ada 3ashar 2alfaani, (Usually, in formal speach, we say : shahri sibtamber min 3aam 2alfayni - except that "11" is "november." :) Furthermore, those are restricted to some Arabic dialects, aren't they? The standard Arabic names are "ayluul" [September] and "tishriin thaani" [November]) w-alladhii ya2tii mu3abbiran (two words) (expressing, speaking of...) (ma3baran means passage way) min 3an is-suudaani wa-2ahlihi, yahdifu al-mawqi3u 2ilaa khidmati al-mughtaribiin as-suudaaniiiin (suudaaniyyiina) bi-duwali 'l-mahjari 3aammatan w-al-khaliiji khuSuuSan qaama bi-2i3daadin al-mawqi3i majmuu3atun min as-suudaaniyyiin al-3aamiliina bi-al-mamlakati 'l-3arabiyyati 's-sa3uudiyyati.

    Almost literally:

    Trip to a place (site)
    The electronic gate to the Sudan
    A new Arabic place in the Internet, whose opening was announced in the beginning of the month 11/2000, and which speaks of the Sudan and its people(. The site) aims to serve of the Sudaneses living abroad in the emigration countries in general and in the Gulf especially. The site was prepared by a group of Sudaneses working with Saudi (no hyphen) Arabia.

    A little better:


    Trip to a place (Visit to a site)
    The Electronic Sudan Gate
    Early in month 11/2000, a new Arabic place (site :tick: ) in (on?:tick: ) the Internet, which offers an insight into the life of the Sudan and its inhabitants (people?:tick: ), announced its opening. It is in general aims to (serving the Sudanese imigrants, specially those in the Gulf countries:tick: ) the service with the emigration countries and especially, with the Gulf of the Sudaneses living abroad. The place was made with a drawing up by a group of Sudaneses working with Saudi-Arabia. (The site was designed/prepared by a group of Sudanese living in Saudi Arabia:tick: )

    My version:

    In early November 2000, a new Arab website on the Internet was launched. This website contains information about Sudan and its people. It aims to service Sudanese citizens living abroad, specifically those living in the Gulf. The site was prepared by a group of Sudanese workers in Saudi Arabia.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Bravo Elroy :thumbsup: very good comments andadditions :)
    Just want to add a little some myself :)

    elroy said:
    except that "11" is "november." :) Furthermore, those are restricted to some Arabic dialects, aren't they? The standard Arabic names are "ayluul" [September] and "tishriin thaani" [November])
    Of course 11 is november :eek: sorry about that "miscalculation" :D In Egypt we use months names from January to December, same in North Africa, but they pronounce/write them in a more "francized" way. The Tishriin, Ayluul... are used in Bilaad 'l-Shaam. As for the other Arab countries, I'm not sure which version they use.


    elroy said:
    In early November 2000, a new Arab website on the Internet was launched. This website contains information about Sudan and its people. It aims to service Sudanese citizens living abroad, specifically those living in the Gulf. The site was prepared by a group of Sudanese workers in Saudi Arabia.
    That's a very good translation :thumbsup:
    Just a tiny remark : don't you think that "website on the Internet" is another redundancy ? Won't the word website be enough ?
    Again thanks for your enriching contributions :)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    cherine said:
    Bravo Elroy :thumbsup: very good comments andadditions :)
    Just want to add a little some myself :)


    Of course 11 is november :eek: sorry about that "miscalculation" :D In Egypt we use months names from January to December, same in North Africa, but they pronounce/write them in a more "francized" way. The Tishriin, Ayluul... are used in Bilaad 'l-Shaam. As for the other Arab countries, I'm not sure which version they use.
    So then, both are acceptable in official contexts?

    That's a very good translation :thumbsup:
    Just a tiny remark : don't you think that "website on the Internet" is another redundancy ? Won't the word website be enough ?
    Again thanks for your enriching contributions :)
    You are right, of course. I guess the Arabic wording influenced me.

    Thanks for your compliments, and thanks to you as well. It's hard to keep up with you. ;)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    I just looked at the title of the text more closely, and I believe that we have a genitive construction. Here's how I would transliterate and translate it:

    Jawlatun fii mawqi3i bawaabati s-Sudaani l'iliktruuniyyati!

    A journey through the (web)site of Sudan's electronic gate!
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    For the question about using both January-December calender and Aylul, Tishriin... calender, the answer is yes, both are used : each country uses the one they prefer and are accustomed to. If you look in an Egyptian newspaper, for example, or any other formal (or even informal) papers in Egypt, the dates are indicated with the use of the January... one, while Lebanese, Syrian (and other countries but i'm not sure which) use the other one.

    elroy said:
    I believe that we have a genitive construction. Here's how I would transliterate and translate it:
    Jawlatun fii mawqi3i bawaabati s-Sudaani l'iliktruuniyyati!
    A journey through the (web)site of Sudan's electronic gate!
    This is true. But you can also consider that there are 2 titles : one main and the other secondary; like
    Visit to/Review of a website :
    The Sudanese Electronic Gate (or Electronic Gate of Sudan)
    I think both are correct. Of course it would have help us more if the original text had punctuation marks علامات الترقيم or diacritical marks علامات التشكيل , but as we all know, their use is not regular .

    ... and thanks for the nice words :)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    cherine said:
    Bravo Elroy :thumbsup:
    ... and bravo Cherine. :thumbsup:

    Thank you so much for all the effort. I really appreciater having such a great helpful community. I'm updating my version and will translate it into German. :)

    I'll be back later with the next part, although I'm desparately searching for the next period in the 100-lines paragraph. ;)

    :thumbsup: مرة أخرى: شكراً جزيلاً

    cherine said:
    This is true. But you can also consider that there are 2 titles : one main and the other secondary; like
    Visit to/Review of a website :
    The Sudanese Electronic Gate (or Electronic Gate of Sudan)
    I think both are correct. Of course it would have help us more if the original text had punctuation marks علامات الترقيم or diacritical marks علامات التشكيل , but as we all know, their use is not regular.
    You're right, there're actaually two lines in the original text. And I don't think you should merge them, since they have different fonts etc.

    Cherine, there are indeed punctuation marks in the title: two dots and an exclamation mark. :)
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Thank you so much Daniel :) and good luck with the German translation.
    Whodunit said:
    I'll be back later with the next part, although I'm desparately searching for the next period in the 100-lines paragraph.
    I didn't understand what you mean by "the next period..." maybe if you can explain further what you're looking for i can help you with it.
    Whodunit said:
    Cherine, there are indeed punctuation marks in the title: two dots and an exclamation mark.
    Of course you're right :eek: Seems that by the time i posted that i had already forgotten what the original text was like :D

    P.S. Glad to have you back :) it's been quiet a while since last time you've been in this "side" of the forum.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    cherine said:
    Thank you so much Daniel :) and good luck with the German translation.
    Should I make you proofread it then? :D Thanks for the nice words.

    I didn't understand what you mean by "the next period..." maybe if you can explain further what you're looking for i can help you with it.
    I think I can. These should be synonyms: full stop, dot, point, full point, and least but not least نقطة (hope that's correct) ;)

    P.S. Glad to have you back :) it's been quiet a while since last time you've been in this "side" of the forum.
    It's been quite without me? Don't think so, since you've achieved more than a whole page in the Arabic forum while I haven't been here. :thumbsup:
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Whodunit said:
    Should I make you proofread it then?
    Well, i'd love to help, it's only that my German doesn't go beyond gutten morgen and gutten nacht (and i'm not even sure how to write them :D

    Whodunit said:
    I think I can. These should be synonyms: full stop, dot, point, full point, and least but not least نقطة (hope that's correct) ;)
    Ok ok :) now I understand. Remember what I said : use of punctuation marks is unfortunately not very common among Arabic writers. And yes, نقطة is right :)

    Whodunit said:
    It's been quite without me?
    Of course it was :D try to come more often :)
     
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