وصول (arrival / arriving)

Arassad

New Member
Italian
Hello everybody,

PREMISE: I'm quite a beginner as far as it concerns Arabic grammar and Arabic language. My interest in maSdar behaviour is due to the fact that I need some clarifications for my thesis project - in linguistics. If you readers find I'm using too "techny" terms, just skip those parts and go the core questions. : )

WHY THIS THREAD: I'm writing a thesis about the synthax and the semantics of verbal nominalization in different languages. With verbal nominalization I mean those cases when a 'grammatical' verb behaves as or is used in contexts where a noun regularly appear.
For example in English in "reading is a nice activity" or "singing the Marseillese was a delight for everybody" the -ing forms, normally used as verbs, are in noun position - they are grammatical subjects of verb. Same goes in Italian and other Romance languages with "il partire di Mario mi disturbò" 'Mario's leaving upset me".
This thread is to ask you some questions about maSdar usage.
I'll skip other details and go straight to the point.

SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT MASDAR: As far as I understood, what most closely resembles -ing nominals and italian nominalized infinitives is the maSdar. I've already made some research on Arabic reference grammars and papers and I have no doubts about the basics. Note that I'm marginally interested in maSdar derivation from the verbal roots. What I want to know mainly concerns its usage and its meaning.

I was quite confused by a grammar translating wuSuul as 'arrival', and not 'arriving', 'idaara as 'management' and not, 'managing'. What I ask is: is there a way to say 'arrival' other than the maSdar form, as there is in English 'arriving'-'arrival' or Italian 'arrivare'-'arrivo'? For example how do you say 'explosion' and how do you say maSdar 'exploding'? If there are two different ways to say so, what is the difference in meaning?

[...]

Thank you!
 
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  • cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I was quite confused by a grammar translating wuSuul as 'arrival', and not 'arriving', 'idaara as 'management' and not, 'managing'. What I ask is: is there a way to say 'arrival' other than the maSdar form, as there is in English 'arriving'-'arrival' or Italian 'arrivare'-'arrivo'?
    wuSuul means both arriving and arrival, depending on context.
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Salut,

    It seems to me that in Arabic the masdar can be used as a substantive or as the verb to which it corresponds (it can have as the verb: a subject, an object ...).
     

    Arassad

    New Member
    Italian
    wuSuul is a noun in Arabic. Is "arriving" a noun in English?
    Thank you, got it. But then my question is: is that the only maSdar of wasala in Arabic?

    Salut,

    It seems to me that in Arabic the masdar can be used as a substantive or as the verb to which it corresponds (it can have as the verb: a subject, an object ...).
    Thank you. How would you add the subject then? Can you give me an example phrase?
     

    Ibn Nacer

    Senior Member
    French - France
    Thank you. How would you add the subject then? Can you give me an example phrase?
    There are several books that devote a chapter to this ... In English there is for example this book : A Grammar of the Arabic Language V1 & V2 - Wright. There is a chapter (page 57- V2): "Construction of the Objective Complement and of the Subject with the Nomen Actionis" :

    Here is the beginning of the chapter :
    27. It has been mentioned above (§21), that the nomina verbi derived from verbs which govern an objective complement in the accusative, may be construed in the same way as the finite verbs themselves. We shall here enter into some further details on this point.
     
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    Ghabi

    AL/OL/Ar/Zh mod
    Cantonese
    But then my question is: is that the only maSdar of wasala in Arabic?
    Yes, waSala, in the sense of "he arrived", has only one maSdar: wuSuul. Some verbs have more than one maSdar, but those variants are meant to be synonyms, and share the same grammatical status.

    Comparing the English -ing with the Arabic maSdar can be confusing, I suppose, as the -ing suffix seems to do a lot of things in English.
     
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