かける: Potential Form

Whodunit

Senior Member
Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
In my travel guide for Japanese, I came across the following sentence:

この字は正しくかけていますか。

Why did they use かけて? Doesn't this mean "to turn?" The translation reveals that it should be かいた, I think:

Did I write this character correctly?

What do you think? Was it a typo, a plain mistranslation, or just correct?
 
  • Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Some Japanese verbs have a form denoting potential (N can V/N can be Ved). Kakeru is the potential form of verb kaku, to write.

    So, 「この字は正しくかけていますか」 means, "This letter, have I been able to write it correctly?"

    Flam
     

    Hiro Sasaki

    Banned
    Japan, Japanese
    In my travel guide for Japanese, I came across the following sentence:

    この字は正しくかけていますか。

    Why did they use かけて? Doesn't this mean "to turn?" The translation reveals that it should be かいた, I think:

    Did I write this character correctly?

    What do you think? Was it a typo, a plain mistranslation, or just correct?

    この字は 正しく 書けていますか ? ・ Is this chinese character written
    correctly ? is correct, But, usually we say simply : この字は 正しい
    ですか ? 

    Hiro Sasaki
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    Thank you, Flaminius. How strange that I had had a look at the form of the potential, and then I wasn't able to recognize it. ;)

    Anatoli, if you had just mentioned it, I would have remembered the potential form. The next time, please allow free rein to your thoughts. :D

    この字は 正しく 書けていますか ? ・ Is this chinese character written
    correctly ? is correct, But, usually we say simply : この字は 正しい
    ですか ? 

    Hiro Sasaki
    Hiro Sasaki, I don't think that 字 refers to Chinese characters. They can also mean "Japanese letter" by 字, can't they? I'd prefer 漢字 for "Chinese character" in order to avoid any ambiguity. Thank you for the alternative sentence, although I would expect your sentence (which I would translate as "Is this character correct?") in another situation:

    Japanese student (A) and a native Japanese speaker (B) are standing in front of a Chinese shop:
    A: Oh, look at this strange kanji. Is this character correct? (seeing 吗)
    B: Well, it is correct, but it doesn't appear in the Japanese language. It's the Chinese letter that corresponds to our か to form a question.
     

    Hiro Sasaki

    Banned
    Japan, Japanese
    Thank you, Flaminius. How strange that I had had a look at the form of the potential, and then I wasn't able to recognize it. ;)

    Anatoli, if you had just mentioned it, I would have remembered the potential form. The next time, please allow free rein to your thoughts. :D



    Hiro Sasaki, I don't think that 字 refers to Chinese characters. They can also mean "Japanese letter" by 字, can't they? I'd prefer 漢字 for "Chinese character" in order to avoid any ambiguity. Thank you for the alternative sentence, although I would expect your sentence (which I would translate as "Is this character correct?") in another situation:


    Japanese student (A) and a native Japanese speaker (B) are standing in front of a Chinese shop:
    A: Oh, look at this strange kanji. Is this character correct? (seeing 吗)
    B: Well, it is correct, but it doesn't appear in the Japanese language. It's the Chinese letter that corresponds to our か to form a question.

    Whodunit,

    You have given an example of a very unusual and rare case.

    この字は わかりますが ? people usually do not think that he is asking
    how to read Hiragana or Katakana.

    Hiro Sasaki
     

    cheshire

    Senior Member
    Catholic (Cat-holic, not Catholic)
    Hiro Sasaki, I don't think that 字 refers to Chinese characters. They can also mean "Japanese letter" by 字, can't they? I'd prefer 漢字 for "Chinese character" in order to avoid any ambiguity. Thank you for the alternative sentence, although I would expect your sentence (which I would translate as "Is this character correct?") in another situation:

    Japanese student (A) and a native Japanese speaker (B) are standing in front of a Chinese shop:
    A: Oh, look at this strange kanji. Is this character correct? (seeing 吗)
    B: Well, it is correct, but it doesn't appear in the Japanese language. It's the Chinese letter that corresponds to our か to form a question.
    I second that, whodoneit. The Chinese letters are 簡体字 (the simpler forms) and the Japanese ones are 繁体字 (the simpler forms), as it were.
    Strictly speaking Japanese kanjis are not Chinese characters, though they derive from that.

    この字は正しくかけていますか。
    This Japanese sentence is all right as it is. Perfect Japanese.
     

    Hiro Sasaki

    Banned
    Japan, Japanese
    Cheshire san

    That will happen only in the limited cases when chinese persons asked to
    some Japanese  about the Japanese letters. or the situation of :

    "Japanese student (A) and a native Japanese speaker (B) are standing in front of a Chinese shop:"
    こういう特別な 状況は 思いつきませんでした。 私の文章は 日本語を学んでいる外国人が日本語が 正しく書かれているか 日本人に聞くという想定での文章です。当然 
    ひらがな かたかな ぐらいは知っているという想定です。

    Hiro Sasaki
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Perhaps devising context is not necessary if we compare the two sentences vis-à-vis.

    a. この字は正しくかけていますか。
    b. この字は正しいですか。

    For sentence a, kono ji is written by the speaker in the most general understanding. Native speakers, do you agree or disagree? The auxiliary element -masu in the verb group, as it seems to me, is there to especially enable this interpretation.

    In contrast, the kono ji in sentence b does not have such an implication. Native speakers, do you agree or disagree? Therefore, the letter in question can be written by anybody. One may utter sentence b when one finds *組 in a hand-written note passed by to one. One may show it to someone and ask, 「この字は正しいですか」. The expected answer would be, 「いいえ、正しくありません。正しくは、『組織』と書きます」.

    飢餓線上のFlam
     
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