こんにちは。私はヌノですそしてポルト住んでいます。
- Thread starter nuno
- Start date
It says:
Konnichiwa, watashi ha tano desu soshite poruto sunde imasu....
translated: Hello, I´m tano, I live in Portugal...
ok, an observation: Portugal is ポルトガル and you have to say Portogaru "ni" sunde imasu...
I´m sorry no kanas in this computer...
mm..just one doubt you are tano or nuno?
Konnichiwa, watashi ha tano desu soshite poruto sunde imasu....
translated: Hello, I´m tano, I live in Portugal...
ok, an observation: Portugal is ポルトガル and you have to say Portogaru "ni" sunde imasu...
I´m sorry no kanas in this computer...
mm..just one doubt you are tano or nuno?
Okay, let me try. 
こんにちは。 - ko n ni chi wa (= Hello)
私 - watashi (= I)
は - wa (= subject marker particle)
ヌノ - nuno (= your name)
です - desu (= to be in the present tense, like "ser" in Spanish)
そして - so shi te (= and)
ポルト - poruto (= Porto)
住ん - su n (= to live)
で - de (= locative particle)
います。 - imasu (= polite verb)
Your sentence means:
Hello, my name is Nuno and I'm living in Porto. I would write it like this:
こんにちは。私はヌノです然してポルト住んでいます。
こんにちは。わたしはぬのですそしてぽるとすんでいます。 (in hiragana only)
Hope it helps.
こんにちは。 - ko n ni chi wa (= Hello)
私 - watashi (= I)
は - wa (= subject marker particle)
ヌノ - nuno (= your name)
です - desu (= to be in the present tense, like "ser" in Spanish)
そして - so shi te (= and)
ポルト - poruto (= Porto)
住ん - su n (= to live)
で - de (= locative particle)
います。 - imasu (= polite verb)
Your sentence means:
Hello, my name is Nuno and I'm living in Porto. I would write it like this:
こんにちは。私はヌノです然してポルト住んでいます。
こんにちは。わたしはぬのですそしてぽるとすんでいます。 (in hiragana only)
Hope it helps.
ポルト - poruto (= Porto) -- It's the city where I live
Oops, we could have known that. Anyway, I'm going to edit my reply.
Daniel said:
red: I think that would be read そして, not しかして. But kanji isn't generally used for そして, so it should just stay that way.
green: Huh?
The way I would write it (that doesn't mean that it's right, of course) would be:
私はヌノで、ポルトにすんでいます。
That is, joining both phrases into one sentence.
He wrote ヌノ and not タノ.
oh sorry for misunderstanding!! This is what you get for posting fast and hiding from your boss!
Gomen ne!
And about Porto...well we always learn something new!!
No more fast posting!!!!
No. です is only used at the end of a sentence. This で is joining the phrases together.
I took the kanji form from here. Enter "soshite" and you'll see.
The stupid hiragana I wrote were just typos. I will correct it.That was before I knew that nuno was refering to Porto. Strangely, I immedately thought of Portugal, just like Careth.
Daniel, let me give you a little tip:
When you enter a word in that dictionary, you usually get some tags along with the translation. When you enter "soshite", this is what you get:
然して(P); 而して 【そして(P); しかして】 (conj) (uk) and; and then; thus; and now; (P)
A tag there is (uk). That means "usually kana". In other words, that word is rarely written with kanji. It is much better to stick with kana in this case.
I was only referring to the unusual kana you used (ぶどうきば).
When you enter a word in that dictionary, you usually get some tags along with the translation. When you enter "soshite", this is what you get:
然して(P); 而して 【そして(P); しかして】 (conj) (uk) and; and then; thus; and now; (P)
A tag there is (uk). That means "usually kana". In other words, that word is rarely written with kanji. It is much better to stick with kana in this case.
I was only referring to the unusual kana you used (ぶどうきば).
私はヌノで、ポルトにすんでいます。
That's the best way to say it. With this pattern, you put two concepts together.
I.e.:
この椅子は大きくて便利だ。
Kono isu wa, ookikute benrida.
This chair is big and comfortable.
あのテレビは、高くてとても買えない。
Ano terebi wa, takakute totemo kaenai.
That TV is very expensive, and I so can not buy it.
Notice how adjectives change
い形容詞： 高い→高くて 大きい→大きくて
I keiyoushi: Takai→Takakute Ookii→Ookikute
な形容詞： きれい→きれいで 便利→便利で
NA keiyoushi: Kirei→Kireide Benri→Benride
And with です happens the same as NA Keiyoushi's. です→で.
But, If you want to write it as two separated sentences,
私（の名前）はヌノです。ポルトに住んでいます。
Watashi (no namae) wa Nuno desu. Poruto ni sunde imasu.
About 然して／そして , It's VERY rare to write it that way, I'd say no one nowadays write 然して.
About 然し（て）／しかし（て）, the same, but I have seen it written that way, some few times.
Santi.
Shoot, Jorge, I did not see your post. I will delete mine (I was just writing it), but I want to mention that it's very important to click on examples when they are available, because those together with the main entry does much of what a dictionary does. The English translations are a bit clunky sometimes, and they are also sometimes too free, but they are very helpful.
Gaer
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%A5%AA%A5%DD%A5%EB%A5%C8
こんにちは、 私は タノです。 オボルトに住んでいます。
こんにちは、 私は オポルトに住んでいる タノです。
The second largest city of Portural, O porto is known as オポルト as far as
I know. (with the definate article included ), although "the Hague in the Netherlands" is known as ハーグ。
Hiro Sasaki
こんにちは、 私は タノです。 オボルトに住んでいます。
こんにちは、 私は オポルトに住んでいる タノです。
The second largest city of Portural, O porto is known as オポルト as far as
I know. (with the definate article included ), although "the Hague in the Netherlands" is known as ハーグ。
Hiro Sasaki
On google, we can see オポルト but many people write ポルト。
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%A5%AA%A5%DD%A5%EB%A5%C8
”現在の地図では、ポルト(Porto)とも表記される。ポルトは、「港」という意味であり、混同を避けるため、都市を特定するときは、「オポルト(Oporto)」と呼ぶ。” ( 西洋語では
都市名には 通常 定冠詞は つけないが 意味の混同を避けるため 定冠詞の
ついた 都市名があり、 定冠詞は 都市名の一部と考えられる。
http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=...%C8&fr=top_v2&tid=top_v2&search.x=1&x=18&y=16
オポルト is the name of the city, and ポルト is used in Japan for the names of the theme park with the atmosphere of a European port city, housing complexs near the coast and organizations and therefore, the number of
hits on Google does not mean much.
Hiro Sasaki
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/keyword/%A5%AA%A5%DD%A5%EB%A5%C8
”現在の地図では、ポルト(Porto)とも表記される。ポルトは、「港」という意味であり、混同を避けるため、都市を特定するときは、「オポルト(Oporto)」と呼ぶ。” ( 西洋語では
都市名には 通常 定冠詞は つけないが 意味の混同を避けるため 定冠詞の
ついた 都市名があり、 定冠詞は 都市名の一部と考えられる。
http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=...%C8&fr=top_v2&tid=top_v2&search.x=1&x=18&y=16
オポルト is the name of the city, and ポルト is used in Japan for the names of the theme park with the atmosphere of a European port city, housing complexs near the coast and organizations and therefore, the number of
hits on Google does not mean much.
Hiro Sasaki
Nudo
Porto Alegre, a city in the south of Brazil is not called O Porto Alegre.
O Porto in Portugal is the correct proper noun. Therefore, I would prefer
to write オポルト。 " O " is a part of the proper noun.
Hiro Sasaki
Porto Alegre, a city in the south of Brazil is not called O Porto Alegre.
O Porto in Portugal is the correct proper noun. Therefore, I would prefer
to write オポルト。 " O " is a part of the proper noun.
Hiro Sasaki
Ladies and gentlemen and other language lovers whose proper appellations escape my mind,
Could I prevail upon you to ask if the thread has accomplished its purpose, to wit, helping our fellow poster Nuno explain his name and place of residence in a Japanese sentence as simple as possible? If my assumption is confirmed, most of the posts in this second page are discussing an out-of-scope topic. In case fellow posters find more points to be discussed, refuted, reiterated or otherwise anent linguistic aspects of Nuno's self-introduction, I request them to please step up to the podium and let others know what they have to say.
Flaminius, Japanese Forum moderētā
Could I prevail upon you to ask if the thread has accomplished its purpose, to wit, helping our fellow poster Nuno explain his name and place of residence in a Japanese sentence as simple as possible? If my assumption is confirmed, most of the posts in this second page are discussing an out-of-scope topic. In case fellow posters find more points to be discussed, refuted, reiterated or otherwise anent linguistic aspects of Nuno's self-introduction, I request them to please step up to the podium and let others know what they have to say.
Flaminius, Japanese Forum moderētā
For me this topic would be useful if we could determine one fact.Ladies and gentlemen and other language lovers whose proper appellations escape my mind,
Could I prevail upon you to ask if the thread has accomplished its purpose, to wit, helping our fellow poster Nuno explain his name and place of residence in a Japanese sentence as simple as possible? If my assumption is confirmed, most of the posts in this second page are discussing an out-of-scope topic. In case fellow posters find more points to be discussed, refuted, reiterated or otherwise anent linguistic aspects of Nuno's self-introduction, I request them to please step up to the podium and let others know what they have to say.
Flaminius, Japanese Forum moderētā
Jorge and Santi suggested this:
私はヌノで、ポルトにすんでいます。
This was never confirmed as correct by any of our "natives" (Japanese members). It is always helpful to be told that we are right or wrong when those of us who are not Japanese make suggestions.
Gaer
Okay, this is a very important point I have been thinking how to explain.
I suggest this "__ de, __ desu" construction not to be used in this context;
*私はヌノで、ポルトにすんでいます。
This sentence sounds to me that being Nuno is as mutable as living in Porto for the speaker (watashi or "I"), that is, it can be inferred that the speaker may be Bono living in New York other times, for example. Using this construction for mutable attribute, however, is perfectly okay;
OK私は日本人で、鎌倉にすんでいます。
watashi-wa Nihonjin de, Kamakura-ni sunde imasu.
I am a Japanese and live in Kamakura.
For yours sincerely, being a Japanese is a more mutable attribute than being Flaminius.
I suggest this "__ de, __ desu" construction not to be used in this context;
*私はヌノで、ポルトにすんでいます。
This sentence sounds to me that being Nuno is as mutable as living in Porto for the speaker (watashi or "I"), that is, it can be inferred that the speaker may be Bono living in New York other times, for example. Using this construction for mutable attribute, however, is perfectly okay;
OK私は日本人で、鎌倉にすんでいます。
watashi-wa Nihonjin de, Kamakura-ni sunde imasu.
I am a Japanese and live in Kamakura.
For yours sincerely, being a Japanese is a more mutable attribute than being Flaminius.
On a second thought, "__ de, __ desu" construction seems to me a quasi-relative clause. I label it as quasi because usual Japanese relative clauses are placed before the nouns they modify.
And I further think that this quasi-relative can be used only for restrictive content.
OK私は日本人で、鎌倉にすんでいます。
I am a Japanese who lives in Kamakura.
Alernatively, "I am a Japanese, living in Kamakura"
But *「私はFlaminiusで、鎌倉にすんでいます」 is ungrammatical just as *"I am Flaminius that lives in Kamakura" is.
Well, before starting to mumble a third thought, I shall let my case rest, however temporarily.
Flaminius
And I further think that this quasi-relative can be used only for restrictive content.
OK私は日本人で、鎌倉にすんでいます。
I am a Japanese who lives in Kamakura.
Alernatively, "I am a Japanese, living in Kamakura"
But *「私はFlaminiusで、鎌倉にすんでいます」 is ungrammatical just as *"I am Flaminius that lives in Kamakura" is.
Well, before starting to mumble a third thought, I shall let my case rest, however temporarily.
Flaminius
I have an idea . Instead of using the construction suggested by others, if I start from scratch and express a simliar set of thoughts in English, think I might write this:
"My name is Gary, and I live in Coral Springs."
(This is really incomplete, but I don't want to add another clause, which would make it more complicated.)
I think the best solution and one that most of us would be most grateful for is ANY idiomatically correct solution that seems natural to those living in Japan!
So perhaps you and our other Japanese members could show us how they would write such a sentence.
(The complete sentence I would write would be: My name is Gary, and I live in Coral Springs, Florida—in the US.)
Gaer
Gary,
My name is Gary, and I live in Coral Springs.
私の名前はゲーリーです。コーラル・スプリングズに住んでいます。
watashi-no namae-wa Gary desu. Coral Springs-ni sunde imasu.
Cheshire,
My point about mutable/immutable attributes is rather shaky (this is the reason I wrote a post on a second thought) but what I wanted to say was some attributes are permanent for the described noun in any conditions while others are mutable according to the possible conditions that the described might undergo.
E.g., メアリーは学生で、横浜に住んでいます。
Mary is a student and lives in Yokohama.
Being a student is a mutable attribute of Mary. Mary will be still Mary even if she graduates. On the other hand, being Mary is an immutable attribute for her. Mary is not Mary if she changes her name to Jane (philosophically she is still the same person, but linguistically she isn't). Therefore, "Mary de" construction is ungrammatical;
*私はメアリーで、横浜に住んでいます。
watashi-wa Mary de, Yokohama-ni sunde imasu.
My name is Gary, and I live in Coral Springs.
私の名前はゲーリーです。コーラル・スプリングズに住んでいます。
watashi-no namae-wa Gary desu. Coral Springs-ni sunde imasu.
Cheshire,
My point about mutable/immutable attributes is rather shaky (this is the reason I wrote a post on a second thought) but what I wanted to say was some attributes are permanent for the described noun in any conditions while others are mutable according to the possible conditions that the described might undergo.
E.g., メアリーは学生で、横浜に住んでいます。
Mary is a student and lives in Yokohama.
Being a student is a mutable attribute of Mary. Mary will be still Mary even if she graduates. On the other hand, being Mary is an immutable attribute for her. Mary is not Mary if she changes her name to Jane (philosophically she is still the same person, but linguistically she isn't). Therefore, "Mary de" construction is ungrammatical;
*私はメアリーで、横浜に住んでいます。
watashi-wa Mary de, Yokohama-ni sunde imasu.
OK メアリーは学生で、横浜に住んでいます。
* 私はメアリーで、横浜に住んでいます。
The former is okay since 学生 is a mutable attribute for Mary whereas the latter is ungrammatical since メアリー is immutable for 私.
* 私はメアリーで、横浜に住んでいます。
The former is okay since 学生 is a mutable attribute for Mary whereas the latter is ungrammatical since メアリー is immutable for 私.
Thank you. Everyone seems to agree that it is best to express these ideas in two sentences. That is a help!
Gaer
Gaer san, there are Japanese sentences which sound very odd or very
clumsy and others sounds very slightly odd.
When we don't answer some questions, it is not too much due to our
negligeance but it is difficult for us to explain why some sentences are
odd. When many Japanese write the same seｎtnces slightly odd, I
hesitate to point out that the sentences are odd.
The following sentences are good and logical.
1. 私は 日本人で 東京に住んでいます。
２． 彼は軍人で 大佐です。
３． 彼は 臆病（おくびょう）で 馬鹿（ばか）です。
４． 彼女は 美人で 気立て（ きだて）がよい。
5. ジョンは 留学生（りゅうがくせい）で 横浜に住んでいます。
The following asetences sounds slightly odd but some Japanese
do not notice it and say so.
６． 彼は アメリカ人で ジョンです。
７. 彼は日本人で 兄弟が ５人います。
More and more, I believe that a foreign language is very difficult for
everyone who is not the native speaker of a language.
Even if I can explain why each sentence is good or bad, it would
need pages to explain them well.
There are also sentences which are between very good and slightly
odd.
Hiro Sasaki