というのは、というのを

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thetazuo

Senior Member
Chinese - China
佐藤: ちょっと一つ気になったんですが、山頂の夜景を眺めながら乾杯するというのは、不自然じゃないですか。
中井: そう言われてみると、そうですね...。何かいい案はないものでしょうか。
...
佐藤: もしかすると、最後に2人が「金星」カクテルで乾杯するというのをやめてもいいかもしれません。こんなにきれいな夜景を前にしたら、恋人たちにはお酒もプレゼントも要らない気がします。

Hi. Dear teachers.
As far as I know, というのは is an expression used to give definitions to something. But the first underlined part doesn’t express a definition but a feeling. Could you explain why というのは can be used this way? Is it an exception to the grammar rule?

And why is というのを used in the second underlined sentence? Can’t we just say 乾杯することを or 乾杯するのを?

Thank you in advance.
 
  • Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    The propositions wrapped around by というのは are not feelings but ideas. Two people are talking about the outline of an advert. The details of concluding the piece are better conceived as ideas than as facts because they are points being discussed. Incidentally, definitions also belong to the realm of idea.

    乾杯するのは and 乾杯するのを are natural replacements in your texts. But 乾杯すること isn't. I think こと makes the propositions more general:
    E.g., 山頂の夜景を眺めながら乾杯することは不自然じゃないですか。
    [Generally speaking; not limited to the production of a specific advert] isn't it unnatural to drink a toast at a mountaintop, looking at the night view?
     
    Last edited:

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    Thank you, Mr. F!
    So what follow というのは are ideas, which include definitions and comments, right?

    And in the second example, if saying 乾杯するのを is enough, why an extra という is inserted between 乾杯する and のを?
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Both of the two propositions wrapped up in というの are conceived of as ideas. Why Satō chose というの over の? Perhaps he wanted to underline that they are just ideas and imply that they can be contested.
     

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    Thank you again.
    Both of the two propositions wrapped up in というの are conceived of as ideas. Why Satō chose というの over の? Perhaps he wanted to underline that they are just ideas and imply that they can be contested.
    I seem to have misunderstood you. You mean what precedes というの is an idea, right?:oops:
    乾杯するのは and 乾杯するのを are natural replacements in your texts.
    I misunderstood this too. You mean in both cases we can dispense with という and just say “山頂の夜景を眺めながら乾杯するのは、不自然じゃないですか” and “最後に2人が「金星」カクテルで乾杯するのをやめてもいいかもしれません”, right?:oops:
     
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