と同じような哀れさを感じる

Kenshiromusou

Senior Member
Portuguese — Brazil
Reading a manga. When the adversary asks why he was defeated. Hero says:
にはなぜか奴らとおなじようなにあわれさを感じたよ。
Context of 奴ら: before their fight, hero defeated a group of thugs. This group tried to kill him using a car. So, hero said they would have problems because they are confusing car power with their own force. And the man who hero defeated later was using weapons and confusing it with his own power too.
にはなぜか奴らとおなじようなにあわれさを感じたよ。= I felt the same deficiency (weakness) that guys had in you too ?
Or に哀れさ感じた = I felt sorry for you too (the same way I felt sorry for those guys) ?
I never saw this pattern.
Thank you very much in advance.
 
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  • SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Reading a manga. When the adversary asks why he was defeated. Hero says:
    にはなぜか奴らとおなじようなにあわれを感じたよ。
    Context of 奴ら: before their fight, hero defeated a group of thugs. This group tried to kill him using a car. So, hero said they would have problems because they are confusing car power with their own force. And the man who hero defeated later was using weapons and confusing it with his own power too.
    にはなぜか奴らとおなじようなにあわれを感じたよ。= I felt the same deficiency (weakness) that guys had in you too ?
    Or に哀れ感じた = I felt sorry for you too (the same way I felt sorry for those guys) ?
    I never saw this pattern.
    Thank you very much in advance.
    にはなぜか奴らとおなじようなにあわれを感じたよ。
    I've never seen it before, either.
    It's obvious that it's grammatically wrong and it doesn't make sense.
    There must be a typo.
     

    Kenshiromusou

    Senior Member
    Portuguese — Brazil
    My friend, sorry. I did a mistake. :cross:
    In fact, he said 君にはなぜか奴らとおなじようなあわれさを感じたよ。
     

    Flaminius

    hedomodo
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    The exact meaning of 奴らと同じ is not obvious in this construction, but the chances are the speaker regards the listener as pathetic as much as "those guys" are pathetic.
     

    Kenshiromusou

    Senior Member
    Portuguese — Brazil
    So, Flaminusさん, 君にあわれさを感じた= I felt pity on you?
    Or 君にあわれさを感じた also means I felt deficiency (weakness) in you? Is あわれさ always = pity?
    Thank you very much.
     

    Flaminius

    hedomodo
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Honestly, I don't understand what it means to feel deficiency (weakness). If you are wondering the nuances of あわれさ, the word may be used to express disdain just in the case as well as compassion as in:
    銃撃事件で子供を失った親の哀れさといったら、言葉に尽くすことができない。
     

    SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    I think "あわれさ=愚かさ(folly)=みじめさ(crappiness)=弱さ(weakness)" in this context.
    In other words, I agree with your interpretation.

    あわれさ here
    =あわれむべきほどの愚かさ/みじめさ/弱さ
    =You're too foolish that I'd even feel pity for you.
    =You're so foolish that I should even have to feel pity for you.
    =You're so foolish and weak that I even cannot help feeling pity on you.

    In this context, the hero actually doesn't feel pity for the adversary at all.

    The hero expresses his superiority or absolute power, by saying that it was a piece of cake to defeat the adversary that he has plenty of room in his mind to feel pity for the adversary and the thugs.

    It's kind of sarcasm or figurative speech, IMHP.

    "銃撃事件で子供を失った親の哀れさ" の場合とは文脈的にはちょっと異なり、
    「神が人間に言った、『我に逆らうとは、あわれな人間どもよ。その勇気だけは誉めてやろう。』といった後に無慈悲にも一瞬で人間を皆殺しにしてしまう・・・」という文脈での「あわれ」だと思います。
    本来の「憐れみの心」は実際は持ち合わせてないにもかかわらず、無意識に、一種の皮肉として「あわれ」と表現しているのではないでしょうか。
    「ありがたい」「やばい」などと同じで、元の意味とはほぼ正反対の感情を表すのに用いるような、修辞的な用法なのかと思いました。

    要するに、このヒーローは、カッコつけた言い方で、敵をバカにしているのだと思います。
     
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