にかかる

Kenshiromusou

Senior Member
Portuguese — Brazil
Yo, friends, I`ve another question.
もう早いさで動く男締め技はかかりにくい. (Faster men hardly fall into constriction technics.)
I think I understand the phrase, but this に...
Is this linked to capacity aception from にくい?
Thank you very much in advance.
 
  • SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    猛スピードで動く?男締め技かかりにくい.
    =猛スピードで動く?男締め技かけにくい.

    The constriction technique is difficult to apply to/on/に a fast-moving guy.

    男に(選手が)締め技かける (主語は選手)
    The player uses the constriction technique to the guy.

    男に
    締め技かかる (主語は締め技)
    The constriction technique is applied to/for the guy.

    >Is thislinked to capacity aception from にくい?
    I don't understand well about もう早いさで and what "aception" is, but this に is linked to the verb かかる or かける, not にくい.

    I wonder if it is not に but the red particles that prevent you from understanding...
    The man/guy is the object, not the subject.
     
    Last edited:

    Kenshiromusou

    Senior Member
    Portuguese — Brazil
    猛スピードで動く?男締め技かかりにくい.
    =猛スピードで動く?男締め技かけにくい.

    The constriction technique is difficult to apply to/on/に a fast-moving guy.

    男に(選手が)締め技かける (主語は選手)
    The player uses the constriction technique to the guy.

    男に
    締め技かかる (主語は締め技)
    The constriction technique is applied to/for the guy.

    >Is thislinked to capacity aception from にくい?
    I don't understand well about もう早いさで and what "aception" is, but this に is linked to the verb かかる or かける, not にくい.

    I wonder if it is not に but the red particles that prevent you from understanding...
    The man/guy is the object, not the subject.
    My friend, I think what really puzzles me is the verb かかる (and かける). The original phrase is "猛スピードで動く男締め技かかりにくい" (intransitive かかる).
    If it was "猛スピードで動く男締め技かけにくい.", I could see it was = The constriction technique is difficult to apply to/on/に a fast-moving guy.
    But, it's 男締め技かかりにくい. Do you think it's a wrong construction?
    I would understand 男に締め技かけにくい and 猛スピードで動く男締め技かかりにくい...
    Thank you very much, my friend.
     
    Last edited:

    SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    技がかかる=The technique works.
    The subject is 技, the verb is かかる.

    男に技がかかる=The technique works on him.
    The subject is 技, the verb is かかる.

    >But, it's 男締め技はかかりにくい. Do you think it's a wrong construction?
    No. I don't think it's wrong. I think it's correct.


    1.弁護士に催眠術はかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:催眠術)(動詞:works)
    2.弁護士は催眠術にかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:弁護士)(動詞:is manipulated)
    3.弁護士は催眠術がかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:弁護士 or 催眠術)(動詞:弁護士="is manipulageted" or 催眠術="works")
    4.巨体男に締め技はかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:締め技)(動詞:works) 
    5.巨体男は締め技にかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:巨体男)(動詞:gets)
    6.巨体男は締め技がかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:巨体男 or 締め技)(動詞:巨体男=gets or 締め技=works)

    All of these are correct.
    As I'm a native speaker, I have no difficulty understanding 3 and 6.
    But grammatically speaking for non-native speakers, I think 3 and 6 can have two interpretations. I mean either 巨体男 or 締め技 can be the subject. But anyway, the meaning is the same.
    Probably, it's an ambiguity in Japanese grammar.
    It might be better for you to think that the meaning of the same verb "かかる" is somewhat different according to the subject.
    In other words, かかる can be both intransitive and transitive.

    Or you may just think that both patterns are correct.
     
    Last edited:

    Kenshiromusou

    Senior Member
    Portuguese — Brazil
    技がかかる=The technique works.
    The subject is 技, the verb is かかる.

    男に技がかかる=The technique works on him.
    The subject is 技, the verb is かかる.

    >But, it's 男締め技はかかりにくい. Do you think it's a wrong construction?
    No. I don't think it's wrong. I think it's correct.


    1.弁護士に催眠術はかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:催眠術)(動詞:works)
    2.弁護士は催眠術にかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:弁護士)(動詞:is manipulated)
    3.弁護士は催眠術がかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:弁護士 or 催眠術)(動詞:弁護士="is manipulageted" or 催眠術="works")
    4.巨体男に締め技はかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:締め技)(動詞:works) 
    5.巨体男は締め技にかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:巨体男)(動詞:gets)
    6.巨体男は締め技がかかりにくい。:tick: (主語:巨体男 or 締め技)(動詞:巨体男=gets or 締め技=works)

    All of these are correct.
    As I'm a native speaker, I have no difficulty understanding 3 and 6.
    But grammatically speaking for non-native speakers, I think 3 and 6 can have two interpretations. I mean either 巨体男 or 締め技 can be the subject. But anyway, the meaning is the same.
    Probably, it's an ambiguity in Japanese grammar.
    It might be better for you to think that the meaning of the same verb "かかる" is somewhat different according to the subject.
    In other words, かかる can be both intransitive and transitive.

    Or you may just think that both patterns are correct.
    Thank you very much, my friend. I always had a problem with かける/かかる. :eek: it can be active and passive...
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    もう早いさで動く男締め技はかかりにくい.

    The original phrase is "猛スピードで動く男締め技かかりにくい"

    Your first post makes no sense. もう in hiragana means "already," so it has to be written in kanji (unless the whole sentence is in kana). Also, the nominal (noun) form of 早い is not 早いさ, but 早さ, which is read "hayasa."

    I understand your question, because the way the grammar works in Japanese here is very different from how it works in the English (or, probably, Portuguese) translation: A chokehold is hard to apply to a man moving at top speed.

    Very literally, the Japanese would translate to "a chokehold applies (intransitive) with difficulty to a man moving at top speed." We don't use "to apply" in that way in this context, which may be why it's hard for you to understand the Japanese grammar.
     

    Katzuhiko Minohara

    Senior Member
    Spanish Mexico
    もう早いさで動く男締め技はかかりにくい
    猛スピードで動く男締め技はかかりにくい
    to a man who moves very fast is difficult that he get applied strangulation technics
    num homem que se move muito rápido é difícil que lhe seja aplicado uma técnica de estrangulamento

    に 
    to 英語
    a ポルトガル語
    is linked to the person, to that man,
     
    Top