ようになる<には>

thetazuo

Senior Member
Chinese - China
「もちろんあれは冗談ですけど、その願い自体は嘘ではありませんわ。士道さんも、成したいことがあるのなら、口に出しておいた方がいいですわよ。誰かに聞かれるのが恥ずかしいのであればーー星に願うだけでも心持ちが違うものですわ」
「星に......ねえ」
士道は何とはなしに空を見上げた。空は日は傾きかけているもののまだ青く、星が見えるようになるにはもう少しかかりそうだった。

Hi. Does the underlined には indicate purpose, as in 外国で暮らすには、その国の言葉を学(まな)ばなければならない。? (But I feel that's not the case here because なる is not a volitional verb, while 暮らす is.)

Thank you.
 
  • Joschl

    Member
    Japanese
    I don't know why it says, "星が見えるようになるは" instead of "星が見えるようになるまでは" 'until stars can/could be seen in the sky/we can/could see stars in the sky' in the last sentence "[X]もう少しかかりそうだった."
     
    Last edited:

    thetazuo

    Senior Member
    Chinese - China
    Thank you. Maybe the writer’s grammar is not perfect. Anyway, how should I understand the には? もう少しかかり seems to mean もう少し時間がかかり and 「A
    にはBがかかる」looks like a fixed construction, meaning “it takes B to do A”.
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    I don't know why it says, "星が見えるようになるは" instead of "星が見えるようになるまでは"
    I agree that adding まで sounds better, but I don't think it's wrong to omit it here. I see the nuance difference as follows.

    星が見えるようになるまでにはもう少しかかりそうだった = It looked like it would take a while until we could see the stars
    星が見えるようになるにはもう少しかかりそうだった = It looked like it would take a while to be able to see the stars

    Basically the same meaning in both. In the first, the nuance of なるには is that of "in order to..."

    もう少しかかり seems to mean もう少し時間がかかり
    That's right. The "時間" is omitted in an ellipsis. Context tells us what the noun is. For example:

    現在、仕事を終えるにはお金が足りません。 もう少しかかりそうです。

    Here, we can conclude that what is needed is money, not time, although it can be ambiguous.
     

    Joschl

    Member
    Japanese
    It doesn't cause me trouble to determine the semantic function of the particle/postposition "ni" in the clause "星が見えるようになるは". I also find it plausible that the "ni" there is equivalent to 'in oder to/that [X]' but would rather expect to encounter a transitive clause instead of the intransitive one whose subject is "星", i.e. "星が見えるようになる" ('stars become visible/appear').

    gengo said:
    The "時間" is omitted in an ellipsis.
    I agree with gengo.
    gengo said:
    although it can be ambiguous
    That's right. I would rather refer the verb "掛る" to "お金" in the context above ('we will need to spend a bit more money completing that job.').
     
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