を欲しがる

Irene991018

New Member
Chinese
「が」と「を」どちらがいい?

こんにちは!
友達はいい辞書xxx欲しがっています。
xxxのところは、「が」のほうがいいですか? 「を」のほうがいいですか?
お願いします。
 
  • Flaminius

    hedomodo
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    「辞書を欲しがっている」ですね。「が」は使えません。

    ただし「欲しい」だけなら「辞書が欲しい」も「辞書を欲しい」も可能です。
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    ただし「欲しい」だけなら「辞書が欲しい」も「辞書を欲しい」も可能です。

    I have always wondered if there was some difference in nuance between the two, or some particular reason for choosing one over the other. Is there?

    I usually use が with 欲しい, but I'm not entirely sure why. Although I'm not a native Japanese speaker, this is one of those cases where I learned the usage the same way as a native does, through absorption, rather than studying or being taught.
     

    Irene991018

    New Member
    Chinese
    I have always wondered if there was some difference in nuance between the two, or some particular reason for choosing one over the other. Is there?

    I usually use が with 欲しい, but I'm not entirely sure why. Although I'm not a native Japanese speaker, this is one of those cases where I learned the usage the same way as a native does, through absorption, rather than studying or being taught.
    こんにちは!
    [がほしい] is usually used on first person or used to ask about expectations in the second person.
    [をほしがる]is usually used to express wishes in the third person.
    [をほしがる] is a fixed sentence pattern.
     
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    SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    (私は)良い辞書欲しい。:tick: Natural
    (私は)良い辞書欲しい。:cross: There is no が or は in this sentence, which makes natives uneasy.
    良い辞書欲しい。:cross: The double が sound unnatural. Although it may be okay in some contexts.
    良い辞書欲しい。:tick:  This sentence is okay, but you have to think of specific contexts.
    良い辞書欲しい。:tick: Natural
    良い辞書欲しい。:tick: I prefer が here, but this is grammatically okay.
    私の友達良い辞書欲しい。:cross: You cannot make a firm statement about how another person feels. Therefore, this sentence sounds weird.
    私の友達良い辞書欲しい。:cross: You cannot make a firm statement about how another person feels.
    Therefore, this sentence sounds weird.
    私の友達良い辞書欲しいと思っている。:tick: There is は already, so が and を are both correct.
    私の友達良い辞書欲しいと思っている。:tick: There is は already, so が and を are both correct.
    私自身は考えてもいないが、私の友達良い辞書欲しいと思っている。:tick:
    私自身は考えてもいないが、私の友達良い辞書欲しいと思っている。:cross: The duplication of が sounds weird. Although it may be possible in some contexts.
    I think we should think of each concrete sentence one by one in order to avoid more confusion.
    There is no general idea or rule that can say everything.

    /////////////////////////////////
    友達はいい辞書が欲しがっています。is just wrong because いい辞書が欲しがっています means "a good dictionary wants something." The subject that wants something is a good dictionary.

    Aが欲しがる=A wants something. Not someone wants A.
    Aを欲しがる=Someone wants A. Not A wants something.
    There seem to be two subjects, 友達は and いい辞書が in this sentence.
    Therefore, this sentence is obviously grammatically incorrect.

    Aが欲しい usually means "someone wants A" but it can mean "A wants something" according to the context.

    /////////////////////////////////
    cf) 私の友達は、例の良い辞書が欲しがっている持ち主として最適の人物だ。might be logically correct, if you approve the personification of that dictionary.
    My friend is the best candidate for the owner whom that dictionary wants to belong to.
    (この例文はかなり無理があるので、cf)以下を理解できないならば、無視してください。余計に混乱させたくありませんので。)
     
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    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    [がほしい] is usually used on first person or used to ask about expectations in the second person.
    [をほしがる]is usually used to express wishes in the third person.
    [をほしがる] is a fixed sentence pattern.
    Thanks, but I was asking about only ほしい, not ほしがる, which I fully understand.

    良い辞書欲しい。:tick: Natural
    良い辞書欲しい。:tick: I prefer が here, but this is grammatically okay.
    This is what I was specifically asking about. I have heard natives use を in such cases, and have always wondered why they do so, and if there is any special difference in nuance.
     

    S.V.

    Senior Member
    Español, México
    That .pdf たい form が vs を untangling from Atsuki Higashiyama also had a table on p. 77, 青年 & 中高年 participants.

    ________________.______________________________....__
    __1. 折り紙__折りたい(59/112.._(58/67)
    _11. ピアノ__弾ける86/85...__(97/29)
    _12. 皆様との交流__図れる87/84...__(80/46)
    _16. これを機会に,皆様との交流__図れる場を設けます(56/113.._(63/63)

    (Mod) Source:
    東山篤規「助詞『が』と『を』の置換性について: 文例と世代の比較利用」『立命館文学』第599巻 (2007年)。71-80ページ。http://doi.org/10.34382/00006285
     
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    SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    This is what I was specifically asking about. I have heard natives use を in such cases, and have always wondered why they do so, and if there is any special difference in nuance.
    1.(私は)良い辞書欲しい。:tick: Natural
    2.(私は)良い辞書欲しい。:cross: There is no が or は in this sentence, which makes natives uneasy.
    3.私良い辞書欲しい。:tick: Natural
    4.私良い辞書欲しい。:tick: I prefer が here, but this is grammatically okay.

    I think 1 and 3 are almost equal sentences. The difference is that the subject is indicated or abbreviated, right?

    In Japanese, 私は is usually abbreviated, therefore, 1 is a natural sentence.
    Therefore, even when 私は is not abbreviated in 3, we think 辞書が欲しい seems natural.
    For this reason, I think 3 is better than 4, although 4 is also grammatically correct.
    Does it make sense to you?

    And we have to think why 私は is not abbreviated in 3 and 4.

    5. 私良い辞書欲しい。:cross: The double が sounds unnatural. Although it may be okay in some contexts.
    6. 私良い辞書欲しい。:tick:  This sentence is okay, but you have to think of specific contexts.


    In order to emphasize that the subject is 私, 5 and 6 are also possible options, right?
    In these example sentences, 5 sounds unnatural. So we have to choose 6.
    In that sense, 4 can be chosen in some cases.

    1 = I want a good dictionary.

    6 and 4 = It is "I" who wants a good dictionary.

    3 = I want a good dictionary, or It is "I" who whats a good dictionary.


    The nuance is quite minute though.
     
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    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    SoLa, thanks for the reply. I'm still not sure of the difference in nuance, but I'll continue using が with 欲しい, as that seems to work in almost every case.
     
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