倒 / 可 / 则 / 反而

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Staarkali

Senior Member
Hello all,

I'm pretty sure these four are really different but none of the dictionaries explain clearly the difference between them;

Can we change one another in these examples:
我知道你是想帮忙,但这一来事情更麻烦了
他个子不高,力气不少
他的话说得不少,她老婆说的不多
风不但没听,反而越刮越大了

Thanks in advance!
 
  • sqlines

    Senior Member
    Dutch
    Hello all,

    I'm pretty sure these four are really different but none of the dictionaries explain clearly the difference between them;

    Can we change one another in these examples:
    我知道你是想帮忙,但这一来事情更麻烦了
    他个子不高,力气不少
    他的话说得不少,她老婆说的不多
    风不但没听,反而越刮越大了

    Thanks in advance!
    Let me translate in pidgin English because that is the best way to understand Chinese.
    I know you want to help me, but in doing this way things instead got worse.
    His height not tall, strength certainly not little.
    He talks a lot, his wife,however, talks not much
    Wind not only not heard, instead the more it blows the bigger it gets (this sentence is odd; the pattern is 不但。。。。而且).
     

    gazagoal

    Member
    Chinese
    I guess the fourth sentence used personification.
    (Sb. Somebody tells the wind to stop, but the) wind hears it not, instead it(the wind) blows even harder.

    P. S. It is a good way
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Staarkali

    Senior Member
    我知道你是想帮忙,但这一来事情更麻烦了
    他个子不高,力气不少
    他的话说得不少,她老婆说的不多
    风不但没停,反而越刮越大了
    好像反而,和大概都能互换,可能现在这个字用的比较少;你们觉得怎么样,能不能说:
    我知道你是想帮忙,但这一来事情反而更麻烦了
    我知道你是想帮忙,但这一来事情更麻烦了
    风不但没停,越刮越大了
    风不但没停,越刮越大了
    他的话说得不少,她老婆说的不多
    他的话说得不少,她老婆反而说的不多
     

    gazagoal

    Member
    Chinese
    风那句我觉得只有用反而读起来比较正常,勉强,不行。风不但没停,倒越刮越大了

    他的话说得不少,她老婆倒说的不多
    他的话说得不少,她老婆反而说的不多
    这两句的意思和她老婆则说的不多不一样了
    很中立
    反而则表示说话人认为他老婆应该说的多,老公说得少。而没有这个意思。
     

    samanthalee

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, English - [Singapore]
    It is kind of difficult to explain.
    means "in contrast"
    means "in the opposite direction of what is previously said"
    反而 means "going against what is expected"
     

    Staarkali

    Senior Member
    Thank you Gaza and Sam, that increases my understanding of these.

    Last question (for now :) ): 口语中用则这个字别人不会觉得我说得怪吧?这个字比较书面的还是口语也可以用的?也不能说这个字是古代的吧?
     

    BODYholic

    Senior Member
    Chinese Cantonese
    Last question (for now :) ): 口语中用则这个字别人不会觉得我说得怪吧?这个字比较书面的还是口语也可以用的?也不能说这个字是古代的吧?
    '则' - 在口语较为少用.

    如: 他的话说得不少,她老婆说的不多
    口语: 他的话说得不少,她老婆说的不多
    In the above example, '则' takes the meaning of 'But'.


    At a more tricky level, '则' is also commonly employed to bridge between actions and resultants.

    A Chinese saying, 穷则变,变则通. If one is poor (穷), then one should change (变). If one changes (变), then things get resolved easily (通).
    Symbolically, 穷 -> 变 -> 通 where '则' is represented by ->
    (Note: 穷 is abstract)

    Given time, I am sure you are going to be "不鸣则已". :)
     

    samanthalee

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, English - [Singapore]
    At a more tricky level, '则' is also commonly employed to bridge between actions and resultants.
    BODYholic has given yet another meaning of '则', which approximately translates to "then".
    eg. 穷则变,变则通. literally translates into "If cannot be done, then change; if change, then can be done."
    "If...then..., else..." can be translated as "若…则…,否则…" (literally: if...then...,if not then...)
     

    Staarkali

    Senior Member
    aaah.. thus the use of 若 to express a condition (如果); but unless I'm wrong, we are approaching the boundaries of Classical Chinese.

    sometimes I feel like Mandarin is a giant puzzle for which a piece will set right every now and then, sometimes a bit unexpectedly :)
     
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