埋める, 埋まる

wingman1985

Senior Member
Chinese
Moderator note: This thread has been moved from here.

So my interpretation of this sentence is :

However,on the issue of which country(Russia/Japan)'s laws shall apply, the opinion difference can not be ignored.
 
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  • karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    しかし、日ロどちらの法律を適用させるかでは認識の違いが埋まっていません。
    So my interpretation of this sentence is :

    However,on the issue of which country(Russia/Japan)'s laws shall apply, the opinion difference can not be ignored.
    You've gotten the first half of it all right.

    埋められません is the expression of negative possibility, meaning it can not be filled.
    埋まっていません says the current condition of something, meaning it's not (yet) filled.
     

    wingman1985

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    You've gotten the first half of it all right.

    埋められません is the expression of negative possibility, meaning it can not be filled.
    埋まっていません says the current condition of something, meaning it's not (yet) filled.
    I know there are 埋まる and 埋める.
    But how do you conjugate from :

    埋める===>埋められません

    and 埋まる ===>埋まっていません?


     

    DaylightDelight

    Senior Member
    Japanese - Tokyo
    埋める (patch) <=> 埋めない (don't patch)
    埋められる (can patch/can be patched) <=> 埋められない (cannot patch/cannot be patched)
    埋まる (be patched) <=> 埋まらない (not be patched)
    埋まっている (being patched/been patched) <=> 埋まっていない (not being patched/not been patched)
     

    wingman1985

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    埋める (patch) <=> 埋めない (don't patch)
    埋められる (can patch/can be patched) <=> 埋められない (cannot patch/cannot be patched)
    埋まる (be patched) <=> 埋まらない (not be patched)
    埋まっている (being patched/been patched) <=> 埋まっていない (not being patched/not been patched)
    Here , 埋まる should be read as "うずまる", not "うまる". Right?
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    Here , 埋まる should be read as "うずまる", not "うまる". Right?
    So much, huh?
    In this case, うずまる or うまる both work. Though I think うずまる sounds more formal.

    うずまる is intransitive, and うずめる is transitive.

    うずまる seems not directly make a possibility form.. I think it's only possible in a strange form like うずまることができる.
    うずめる becomes うずめられる and this can mean either possibility or passive. To mean can be filled, うずめられることができる, but we usually don't say this. Instead of saying 'can be filled', in Japanese, I think, we might be switching between passive and active voice.
     
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    DaylightDelight

    Senior Member
    Japanese - Tokyo
    うめる/うまる and うずめる/うずまる are mostly interchangeable, but there are slight differences in their usage.

    Here's an excerpt from an online dictionary (うめる【埋める】の意味 - goo国語辞書)
    [用法]うめる・[用法]うずめる――「土で穴をうめる(うずめる)」「小判を入れた瓶 (かめ) を地中にうめる(うずめる)」など相通じて用いられるが、「うめる」はくぼみや穴などを何かでふさぎ満たす意が強く、「うずめる」は空いた所を何かですっかり覆うようにする意が強い。◇「スタンドをうずめた観衆」「町を緑でうずめよう」など、ある場所を何かでいっぱいにする「うずめる」は、「うめる」で置き換えられなくはないが、隅々までびっしりという感じを表す場合は「うずめる」を用いるほうが適切。◇逆に、「余白をうめる」「欠員をうめる」など、欠けている部分を満たす意では、「うめる」のほうが一般的である。◇「湯をうめる」「損失をうめる」は「うめる」に特有の、「恋人の胸に顔をうずめる」は「うずめる」に特有の用法で、この場合両語を置き換えることはできない。
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    埋められません is the expression of negative possibility, meaning it can not be filled.
    埋める===>埋められません

    and 埋まる ===>埋まっていません?
    I just find these interesting. (and it's my surprise how complicated the language I'm using without thinking is.)

    埋める is transitive. 埋める becomes 埋められる at ease, and this can mean either possibility or passive, or even both of them at the same time as I see the evidence in the above sentence I wrote. I don't know but maybe there's a grammatical term for it.
    The negative of 埋められる is 埋められない.
    (When talking to a person, 埋められます and 埋められません are the standard.)

    埋まる is intransitive, and translates as 'be filled'. Also, 埋まる itself can mean possibility, just like the English 'sell' or 'feel' or etc. as intransitive***. So, 埋まる doesn't have possibility or passive form.
    The negative of 埋まる is 埋まらない.
    (When talking to a person, 埋まります and 埋まりません are the standard.)

    So, 埋まりません is another possibility for 埋められません. (Just 埋まりません has a feel of waiting to see it, while 埋められません has a feel of actively doing it.)

    している、していない、しています、していません are the ones to express progression or condition.
    埋められていません is also possible, but 埋まっていません says the same thing, and the latter feels more concise and easier to use.
    ***activo-passive =mediopassive(能動受動態、ロイヤル英文法, §285)
    (grammar) Of a grammatical voice in which the actor of a stative verb is not expressed. This is a special type of passive voice, which is the general phenomenon of the actor of a verb not being expressed. (mediopassive - Wiktionary)
    In my words, 自動詞として無生物主語をとり、それを扱う人にとっての便宜性を表現する動詞.

    英語の場合も、能動受動態は表面上、可能性の意味が感じられますが、文法的に追及するとその名も示すように受身の意味も同時に表現するものです。
     
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    wingman1985

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    I just find these interesting. (and it's my surprise how complicated the language I'm using without thinking is.)

    埋める is transitive. 埋める becomes 埋められる at ease, and this can mean either possibility or passive, or even both of them at the same time as I see the evidence in the above sentence I wrote. I don't know but maybe there's a grammatical term for it.
    The negative of 埋められる is 埋められない.
    (When talking to a person, 埋められます and 埋められません are the standard.)

    埋まる is intransitive, and translates as 'be filled'. Also, 埋まる itself can mean possibility, just like the English 'sell' or 'feel' or etc. as intransitive***. So, 埋まる doesn't have possibility or passive form.
    The negative of 埋まる is 埋まらない.
    (When talking to a person, 埋まります and 埋まりません are the standard.)

    So, 埋まりません is another possibility for 埋められません. (Just 埋まりません has a feel of waiting to see it, while 埋められません has a feel of actively doing it.)

    している、していない、しています、していません are the ones to express progression or condition.
    埋められていません is also possible, but 埋まっていません says the same thing, and the latter feels more concise and easier to use.

    In my words, 自動詞として無生物主語をとり、それを扱う人にとっての便宜性を表現する動詞.

    英語の場合も、能動受動態は表面上、可能性の意味が感じられますが、文法的に追及するとその名も示すように受身の意味も同時に表現するものです。
    I have never ever seen the use of mediopassive and this part REALLY make the understaning of this sentence very difficult. Cheers for you detailed explanation.
     

    810senior

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    埋まる describes the condition of being buried while 埋められる states being buried forcefully by someone.

    For example,
    土砂で池が埋まっている
    土砂で池が埋められる
    Both refer to the same thing that the lake is covered by sand, but the former mentions the situation that the lake is being buried under the sand and the latter focuses on the action of covering (the lake) with the streaming sand.
     
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