大老 / 大佬

[Ben pan]

我看台湾的一本杂志使用“大老”这个词，明显用来表示大人物的意思，在大陆这个词一般写作“大佬”？ 有谁知道大佬和大老各自的来历吗？ 台湾人不用“大佬”，而用“大老”吗？

 

[Skatinginbc]

大老 means 年高德劭者, 於一領域舉足輕重者, 高官元老, 幫會黨派長老, etc. It is the standard form used in the Classical Chinese literature (e.g., 孟子離婁上：「二老者，天下之大老也」) and 白話 literature of Yuan-Ming-Qing dynasties, and it continues to be so in Taiwan Mandarin.

佬 came from Cantonese, meaning "adult males". Phrases in Taiwan Mandarin that contain "佬" often carry a hint of derogatory undertone (e.g., 闊佬, 鄉巴佬). 大佬 sounds somewhat like 頭目--I mean, there is some potential negativity like English "alpha male", which may have an "animal, dehumanized" sense. 國民黨大老 is a neutral term, free of judgment; 國民黨大佬, on the other hand, may possibly come across as having prejudgment (like 共黨頭目). To be safe, use “大老” not "大佬” in Taiwan.

I have no idea why 在大陆这个词一般写作“大佬”. I'm curious as well (Perhaps borrowed from Hongkong?).

 

[SuperXW]

I have no idea why 在大陆这个词一般写作“大佬”. I'm curious as well (Perhaps borrowed from Hongkong?).

是的，大陆的「大佬」是从香港文化中借来的，而不是沿用古文的，也不是从台湾文化中借来的。
首先是香港电影中经常出现「黑社会大佬」，即大哥/老大，另这个名词在大陆流传开来。而传统的「大老」，即你所说的「年高德劭者, 於一領域舉足輕重者, 高官元老, 幫會黨派長老」，怎么看都感觉和「黑社会大哥/老大」区别不大，用个特别的「佬」字感觉更港式更有型……
从这个case看来，大陆有时受香港文化影响（资本主义……而已）比受传统文化影响（旧封建思想被文革「破四旧」破掉了）和台湾文化影响（「打倒国x党反x派~~！」）更多。

 

[Ben pan]

大老 means 年高德劭者, 於一領域舉足輕重者, 高官元老, 幫會黨派長老, etc. It is the standard form used in the Classical Chinese literature (e.g., 孟子離婁上：「二老者，天下之大老也」) and 白話 literature of Yuan-Ming-Qing dynasties, and it continues to be so in Taiwan Mandarin.

佬 came from Cantonese, meaning "adult males". Phrases in Taiwan Mandarin that contain "佬" often carry a hint of derogatory undertone (e.g., 闊佬, 鄉巴佬). 大佬 sounds somewhat like 頭目--I mean, there is some potential negativity like English "alpha male", which may have an "animal, dehumanized" sense. 國民黨大老 is a neutral term, free of judgment; 國民黨大佬, on the other hand, may possibly come across as having prejudgment (like 共黨頭目). To be safe, use “大老” not "大佬” in Taiwan.

I have no idea why 在大陆这个词一般写作“大佬”. I'm curious as well (Perhaps borrowed from Hongkong?).

你的意思是说国民党大老和国民党大佬在台湾有实质性的区别，太不可思议了吧。 我觉得无论是台湾还是大陆，“大佬、老”这个词都是中性的，即便在特殊的语境中能带有贬义。

 

[Skatinginbc]

你的意思是说国民党大老和国民党大佬在台湾有实质性的区别，太不可思议了吧。

They mean the same--no difference in meanings. But 大佬 is not the usual form and therefore is more likely to evoke special connotations, for instance, 大佬文化 and 幫派文化 where hierarchy trumps democracy. It has something to do with collocation (e.g., when 大佬 often comes with the name of an organized gang (e.g., 竹联帮), the high frequency would naturally establish a connotation).

 

[Ben pan]

Thank you very much!

 

[Ghabi]

你好！在廣州話裡「佬」（陰上）跟「老」（陽上）不同音，「大佬」跟「大老」是兩個不同的詞，不能互換。

「大佬」是固有詞，作「哥哥」解，現在依然常用；至於「黑社會大佬」，很遺憾，黑社會在這裡（香港）已是接近式微的行業了，已經較少聽到（除了在電視劇），反而「大佬」用作辦公室術語、作「上司」解很常用（例如：聽講你大佬同我大佬今朝晌大老細面前炒大鑊喎）。

「大老」是近年借自大陸、台灣的書面詞（就像「大款」、「大腕」之類的），未必人人知道，日常就更加少聽到了（雖然在新聞節目中可能會聽到「政壇大老」之類的）。

 

[Skatinginbc]

Indeed, "「大佬」是固有詞，作「哥哥」解...「大佬」用作辦公室術語、作「上司」解很常用". Both 大哥 (a term used by gangsters in Taiwan to address their dons) and "boss" as in "mob boss" (crime lord, mafia) smack of "absolute control over subordinates". Party "bosses" are those that control votes and dictate appointments, often with a reputation for corruption. 政壇大老 is a neutral term. 政壇大佬 sounds somewhat derogatory especially when political parties and gangs often intertwine in reality. Some illegal, secretive organizations such as 洪门天地会 of the Qing Dynasty were closely linked to the establishment of Republic of China and 國民黨. Dr. Sun Yet-Sen was one of the "four bandits" 四大寇. Today 洪门 is deemed an illegal organization in Hongkong but legal and politically influential in Taiwan. The term 國民黨大佬 seems to prejudge them as mob bosses or 頭目 of the bandits that exercise absolute control over subordinates.
大佬 may also evoke 省籍意識. Using the atypical 國民黨大佬 rather than the usual 國民黨大老 seems to deliberately make obvious that it is a party originating from the Mainland, rather than a homegrown product of Taiwan.