明日の会議に行かれるんですか?

Steven2

Senior Member
English
明日の会議に行かれるんですか?
Using passive form to show politeness

Passive form can also mean "passive", so how to differentiate both usages?
 
  • Ototsan

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    明日の会議に行かれるんですか?
    Using passive form to show politeness

    Passive form can also mean "passive", so how to differentiate both usages?
    As far as 行かれる is concerned, it is very difficult to imagine a situation in which 行く must be used in passive. In other words: pragmatically speaking, 行かれる is non-passive most of the time.

    Secondly, though it is grammatically OK to use 行かれる as a polite form, I would avoid the use of this form, because it is homophonous with いかれる which means 'go insane'. For example, 先生はいかれた would mean 'Sensei went insane'. I would use いらっしゃいますか instead of 行かれますか. But this may be a matter of personal preference.
     

    lrosa

    Senior Member
    English - Ireland
    Once I went to a swimming pool and was asked by one of the staff "泳がれますか?" I was completely non-plussed, trying to figure out what she could mean by saying "Will you 'be swum'?" But in hindsight, it was quite obvious from the context and the specific verb.
    I wonder if this use of the passive as a polite form is only used for verbs that could not be misinterpreted as passive..
     

    Ototsan

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Once I went to a swimming pool and was asked by one of the staff "泳がれますか?" I was completely non-plussed, trying to figure out what she could mean by saying "Will you 'be swum'?" But in hindsight, it was quite obvious from the context and the specific verb.
    I wonder if this use of the passive as a polite form is only used for verbs that could not be misinterpreted as passive..
    敬語 cannot be fully explained syntactically, but it is for the most part a phenomenon that is genrally characterized as pragmatic.

    Personally I would avoid "pasive" forms and preferably use お~になる (お読みになる) for this pupose. However, to my surprise, I would use 泳ぎになりますか in this particular case instead of the grammatically correct お泳ぎになりますか, because o-oyogi-ni-narimasuka would sound clumsy because of the vowel sequence o-o.

    Don't ask me to explain why it is so. I am only human.

    Afterthougt
    You should notice that passive forms sometimes fail. For example:

    あなたは,お昼にカレーライスを食べられますか?

    sounds unacceptable for me, though it is expected to be syntactically correct. Here you should say お食べになりますか or 召し上がりますか?
     
    Last edited:

    lammn

    Senior Member
    Chinese - Cantonese
    I wonder if this use of the passive as a polite form is only used for verbs that could not be misinterpreted as passive..
    I don't think so.

    If you read the Japanese Bible, you will find numerous examples of "passive" being used as polite form.
    Though one may argue that the Bible is not written in standard Japanese...
     
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